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#1
10-14-2007, 11:18 AM
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2/4 with QQ against a donker
Donker is 41/9/1.9 over a very small sample, no stats on BB.
2/4 6max Preflop:Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls. Flop: (6SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font> <font color="red">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls. Turn: (5.75BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font> <font color="red">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero... 
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#3
10-14-2007, 11:22 AM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
I discussed this hand with Mike.
We were debating calling or raising on the turn. FWIW i think its close but would prolly end up calling. The third guy in the pot does make it appealing to raise tho - in particular if we has some knowledge regarding the donkers range.
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#4
10-14-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
In the heat of the battle I raise.
In the calm of the forum, I call but hate doing so.
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#6
10-15-2007, 07:21 AM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
I just call.
His range has to be weighted heavily towards draws that hit (87, diamonds, gutshot) and made hands that don't want to give a free card. Ime a double donk by a bad villain is often a stubborn TP. But in this case an overcard hit, so his turn donk has to narrow his range enough do discount 7x. That means we have less equity (I think) and we hate getting 3bet 'case we don't know how clean our [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] outs are. [ QUOTE ] The third guy in the pot does make it appealing to raise tho [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what's so appealing about it. We won't get protection except maybe vs 5outers, and we're not sure enough of our equity to pump the turn for value.
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#7
10-15-2007, 07:36 AM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
We are still ahead of 55,99,TT,89,75,65,T8 SB might have (protecting vs FD here?). He's not that aggressive preflop. We got 10 outs vs a set. Plenty more vs a two-pair and 8 vs. a straight.
The worst result about raising is that SB might 3-bet and BB folds and our equity would probably collapse HU vs SB in that case. Call with outs? And (over)call one bet on river UI.
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#8
10-15-2007, 08:09 AM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The third guy in the pot does make it appealing to raise tho [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what's so appealing about it. We won't get protection except maybe vs 5outers, and we're not sure enough of our equity to pump the turn for value. [/ QUOTE ] It means that we get better odds on our money when we raise. So of course it makes it more appealing to raise when there is a donk paddling the pot when we are ahread of his range like 100%.
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#9
10-15-2007, 08:17 AM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The third guy in the pot does make it appealing to raise tho [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what's so appealing about it. We won't get protection except maybe vs 5outers, and we're not sure enough of our equity to pump the turn for value. [/ QUOTE ] It means that we get better odds on our money when we raise. So of course it makes it more appealing to raise when there is a donk paddling the pot when we are ahread of his range like 100%. [/ QUOTE ] well I don't think we can be sure we're ahead BB 100% Oink. I would take the safe line against theese almost unknown players and call, since I don't like to get 3-bet on turn and I really want to SD this hand. The Qd makes a raise/call on turn more appealing than if we had no redraw, but I still call...
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#10
10-15-2007, 09:20 AM
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Re: 2/4 with QQ against a donker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The third guy in the pot does make it appealing to raise tho [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what's so appealing about it. We won't get protection except maybe vs 5outers, and we're not sure enough of our equity to pump the turn for value. [/ QUOTE ] It means that we get better odds on our money when we raise. So of course it makes it more appealing to raise when there is a donk paddling the pot when we are ahread of his range like 100%. [/ QUOTE ] Ah, I see what you're saying. The bet-spitting machine increases our overlay so we need less equity to raise. Good point.
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