I hate TP vs nits - 200 NL

[EWS87]

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why on earth didnt you bet the flop???

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The nitty cold-caller could easily be setting a tarp.

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so if bb leads for 30 on brick turn your just gonna fold?

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call once, fold river. Same result as betting the turn if checked to really. At least that would be my plan.

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it might feel like the same result but its not not because you are disguising your strength... you got lucky he checked raised you and let you get off easy...if he leads turn and you call...what bets are you folding to on river and what bets are you calling on river???

my guess is that if he makes a small vbet that you probably end up calling given that he cant put you on a queen

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so how does betting flop alleviate this problem other than bloating the pot vs a likely trapper?

and while i understand your line of thinking, I can pretty comfortably fold the river if he bets since there are no draws i can put him on and his play screams strength

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betting the flop will win this hand more often then betting the turn because checking the flop will open up an opportunity for him to crai as a bluff on the turn

im not saying hes bluffing every time and it certainly doesn't seem like it in this case, but it is more +EV to bet the flop

[tarath]

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To those saying wtf preflop? I'm actually shocked. First of all the fish min raised, I'm not exactly thrilled to let the blinds in cheap here when I have position and a good hand against a terrible player. This is so standard for me its not funny.

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QFT

Well played now fold

[keikiwai]

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WTF with the preflop 3-bet?

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MP is super fish station, running 40/20 or something, can't fold bottom pair, etc.


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[thac]

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why on earth didnt you bet the flop???

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The nitty cold-caller could easily be setting a tarp.

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so if bb leads for 30 on brick turn your just gonna fold?

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call once, fold river. Same result as betting the turn if checked to really. At least that would be my plan.

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it might feel like the same result but its not not because you are disguising your strength... you got lucky he checked raised you and let you get off easy...if he leads turn and you call...what bets are you folding to on river and what bets are you calling on river???

my guess is that if he makes a small vbet that you probably end up calling given that he cant put you on a queen

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so how does betting flop alleviate this problem other than bloating the pot vs a likely trapper?

and while i understand your line of thinking, I can pretty comfortably fold the river if he bets since there are no draws i can put him on and his play screams strength

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betting the flop will win this hand more often then betting the turn because checking the flop will open up an opportunity for him to crai as a bluff on the turn

im not saying hes bluffing every time and it certainly doesn't seem like it in this case, but it is more +EV to bet the flop

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You're not really afraid of any cards (there's 3 aces assuming that BB has one), and checking the flop and betting turn lets BB call a bit lighter. While we don't really care to play vs BB, betting the flop folds weaker and lets him play relatively perfect [we don't really mind], and we can increase our expentency vs both by checking flop and betting turn because it's generally an air/monster hand IMO.

[EWS87]

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why on earth didnt you bet the flop???

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The nitty cold-caller could easily be setting a tarp.

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so if bb leads for 30 on brick turn your just gonna fold?

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call once, fold river. Same result as betting the turn if checked to really. At least that would be my plan.

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it might feel like the same result but its not not because you are disguising your strength... you got lucky he checked raised you and let you get off easy...if he leads turn and you call...what bets are you folding to on river and what bets are you calling on river???

my guess is that if he makes a small vbet that you probably end up calling given that he cant put you on a queen

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so how does betting flop alleviate this problem other than bloating the pot vs a likely trapper?

and while i understand your line of thinking, I can pretty comfortably fold the river if he bets since there are no draws i can put him on and his play screams strength

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betting the flop will win this hand more often then betting the turn because checking the flop will open up an opportunity for him to crai as a bluff on the turn

im not saying hes bluffing every time and it certainly doesn't seem like it in this case, but it is more +EV to bet the flop

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You're not really afraid of any cards (there's 3 aces assuming that BB has one), and checking the flop and betting turn lets BB call a bit lighter. While we don't really care to play vs BB, betting the flop folds weaker and lets him play relatively perfect [we don't really mind], and we can increase our expentency vs both by checking flop and betting turn because it's generally an air/monster hand IMO.

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well obv we are either behind on flop and turn or ahead on flop and turn...but imo...

check on flop causing BB to bluff turn happens way more often then BB calling a turn bet with a worse hand

to me it doesn't even seem close...why not take a stab on the flop and try to win it there and shut down if he plays back at you t

[thac]

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why on earth didnt you bet the flop???

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The nitty cold-caller could easily be setting a tarp.

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so if bb leads for 30 on brick turn your just gonna fold?

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call once, fold river. Same result as betting the turn if checked to really. At least that would be my plan.

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it might feel like the same result but its not not because you are disguising your strength... you got lucky he checked raised you and let you get off easy...if he leads turn and you call...what bets are you folding to on river and what bets are you calling on river???

my guess is that if he makes a small vbet that you probably end up calling given that he cant put you on a queen

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so how does betting flop alleviate this problem other than bloating the pot vs a likely trapper?

and while i understand your line of thinking, I can pretty comfortably fold the river if he bets since there are no draws i can put him on and his play screams strength

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betting the flop will win this hand more often then betting the turn because checking the flop will open up an opportunity for him to crai as a bluff on the turn

im not saying hes bluffing every time and it certainly doesn't seem like it in this case, but it is more +EV to bet the flop

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You're not really afraid of any cards (there's 3 aces assuming that BB has one), and checking the flop and betting turn lets BB call a bit lighter. While we don't really care to play vs BB, betting the flop folds weaker and lets him play relatively perfect [we don't really mind], and we can increase our expentency vs both by checking flop and betting turn because it's generally an air/monster hand IMO.

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well obv we are either behind on flop and turn or ahead on flop and turn...but imo...

check on flop causing BB to bluff turn happens way more often then BB calling a turn bet with a worse hand

to me it doesn't even seem close...why not take a stab on the flop and try to win it there and shut down if he plays back at you t

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We're in good position so that even if he c/rs the turn he can't really bluff with MP left to act unless he's really spewy/crazy. I dunno, I would like betting flop more on a JTx board where we don't really want a call. We wouldn't really mind a call.

[Jay Riall]

Can people plz stop quoting 9 posts.....

[Dr_Doctr]

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Well played now fold

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[RikkiDee]

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well obv we are either behind on flop and turn or ahead on flop and turn...but imo...

check on flop causing BB to bluff turn happens way more often then BB calling a turn bet with a worse hand

to me it doesn't even seem close...why not take a stab on the flop and try to win it there and shut down if he plays back at you t

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Well my goal here isn't necessarily to just "win the pot". I want to maximize my EV. Blindly cbetting just because we have TP doesn't necessarily maximize our EV on this hand given the information we have.

I obviously Cbet here most of the time, but I haven't heard a good reason to do it yet on this hand other than to "define our hand" perhaps? Which isn't always as bad as people make it out to be but when the SB's hand is already pretty defined as a good pair or maybe AK, why else are we betting?

The SB is folding anything but a set or overpair, which probably makes up a very large % of his range here. Betting is probably -EV vs his range, imo.

[EWS87]

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We're in good position so that even if he c/rs the turn he can't really bluff with MP left to act unless he's really spewy/crazy. I dunno, I would like betting flop more on a JTx board where we don't really want a call. We wouldn't really mind a call.

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your missing the contradiction though...if OP is not 100% sure that BB is trapping then he should bet the flop and win the pot there a fair % of times...if OP is 100% sure that BB is trapping then it makes no sense to bet the turn either

if he was going to bet...it makes alot more sense on the flop because he can still get credit for a hand

and with this guys stats i dont see him calling that 25 bet on the turn with TT...so there is no value in betting