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#1
03-26-2006, 07:10 AM
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B&M rule question on showing hands...
Board shows a straight on the river. First person bets and second person calls. First person shows two useless cards and says he's using the board. Second person says he's using the board and mucks. Does the second person lsoe and forfeits the pot to the first person?
Related question: board shows Ace high. After the action first person reveals A2 for aces and uses board for kicker. Second person flips an Ace and mucks the other card. Does the second person lose and forfeits the pot? 
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#2
03-26-2006, 07:19 AM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
Not absolutely 100% sure, but I believe that:
Whether announcing "I play the board" is legit depends on the house rule. You always have to show two cards in hold'em to get a piece of the pot (if you don't win it uncontested). The second hand is dead and the first hand wins the whole pot.
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#3
03-26-2006, 09:01 AM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
in both instances, usually yes, the 2nd person loses any right to the pot 'cuz he/she didn't show both hole cards. most public cardrooms have the "gotta show both to win" guideline.
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#4
03-26-2006, 09:37 AM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
[ QUOTE ]
in both instances, usually yes, the 2nd person loses any right to the pot 'cuz he/she didn't show both hole cards. most public cardrooms have the "gotta show both to win" guideline. [/ QUOTE ] Some rooms recognize that the "gotta show both" rule is really only designed to stop one-card-showing slowrolls. In those rooms, as long as you declare you're playing the board, you're fine. First pot is a chop. Second one, the second player's a [censored] moron and truly deserves to lose that pot.
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#5
03-26-2006, 12:52 PM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
[ QUOTE ]
Board shows a straight on the river. First person bets and second person calls. First person shows two useless cards and says he's using the board. Second person says he's using the board and mucks. Does the second person lsoe and forfeits the pot to the first person? Related question: board shows Ace high. After the action first person reveals A2 for aces and uses board for kicker. Second person flips an Ace and mucks the other card. Does the second person lose and forfeits the pot? [/ QUOTE ] Both examples are dead hands if one of the cards hit the muck. You can't just announce you are playing the board, you have to turn up both cards and let the dealer determine the hand. There may be cardrooms that allow you to announce that you're playing the board and then muck your hand but it's a dangerous precedent IMO. It leads to other types of sloppy rule enforcement. There's no reason why both players shouldn't turn up both card to chop the pot. Same thing for your second example. Both cards have to be turned up.
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#6
03-26-2006, 01:31 PM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
[ QUOTE ]
Board shows a straight on the river. First person bets and second person calls. First person shows two useless cards and says he's using the board. Second person says he's using the board and mucks. Does the second person lsoe and forfeits the pot to the first person? Related question: board shows Ace high. After the action first person reveals A2 for aces and uses board for kicker. Second person flips an Ace and mucks the other card. Does the second person lose and forfeits the pot? [/ QUOTE ] The first question is asked about every 4 or 5 weeks on here. The player that announces he is playing the board receives his half of the pot almost everywhere in the world (I have never seen a set of written rules that didn't directly cover this point). The second question isn't asked as much, but in general he is going to get his half of the pot. This sort of thing should be discouraged, but if someoen does it it is someone that is knew to casino poker and chasing him away at this point would be really bad for the game. Anyone that wants the other player's hand declared dead in either of these spots is the sort of player you don't want in your room. Anyone who asks the floor to "rule that guy's winning hand dead, so I can win the pot when he clearly has the winner" is a short step above a cheat and needs to be discouraged from chasing away the players that conduct themselves as ladies and gentlemen.
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#7
03-26-2006, 05:01 PM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Board shows a straight on the river. First person bets and second person calls. First person shows two useless cards and says he's using the board. Second person says he's using the board and mucks. Does the second person lsoe and forfeits the pot to the first person? Related question: board shows Ace high. After the action first person reveals A2 for aces and uses board for kicker. Second person flips an Ace and mucks the other card. Does the second person lose and forfeits the pot? [/ QUOTE ] The first question is asked about every 4 or 5 weeks on here. The player that announces he is playing the board receives his half of the pot almost everywhere in the world (I have never seen a set of written rules that didn't directly cover this point). The second question isn't asked as much, but in general he is going to get his half of the pot. This sort of thing should be discouraged, but if someoen does it it is someone that is knew to casino poker and chasing him away at this point would be really bad for the game. Anyone that wants the other player's hand declared dead in either of these spots is the sort of player you don't want in your room. Anyone who asks the floor to "rule that guy's winning hand dead, so I can win the pot when he clearly has the winner" is a short step above a cheat and needs to be discouraged from chasing away the players that conduct themselves as ladies and gentlemen. [/ QUOTE ] The room I play in you have to turn over both cards(tabling them) to have a claim to the pot when at showdown. It's a pretty strict rule in there. This just came up recently. 2 people flipped their hands over playing the board. The 3rd said he'll play the board and mucked. He lost his part of the pot. Quite a scene happened afterward that was rather entertaining. b
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#8
03-26-2006, 08:19 PM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Board shows a straight on the river. First person bets and second person calls. First person shows two useless cards and says he's using the board. Second person says he's using the board and mucks. Does the second person lsoe and forfeits the pot to the first person? Related question: board shows Ace high. After the action first person reveals A2 for aces and uses board for kicker. Second person flips an Ace and mucks the other card. Does the second person lose and forfeits the pot? [/ QUOTE ] The first question is asked about every 4 or 5 weeks on here. The player that announces he is playing the board receives his half of the pot almost everywhere in the world (I have never seen a set of written rules that didn't directly cover this point). The second question isn't asked as much, but in general he is going to get his half of the pot. This sort of thing should be discouraged, but if someoen does it it is someone that is knew to casino poker and chasing him away at this point would be really bad for the game. Anyone that wants the other player's hand declared dead in either of these spots is the sort of player you don't want in your room. Anyone who asks the floor to "rule that guy's winning hand dead, so I can win the pot when he clearly has the winner" is a short step above a cheat and needs to be discouraged from chasing away the players that conduct themselves as ladies and gentlemen. [/ QUOTE ] The room I play in you have to turn over both cards(tabling them) to have a claim to the pot when at showdown. It's a pretty strict rule in there. This just came up recently. 2 people flipped their hands over playing the board. The 3rd said he'll play the board and mucked. He lost his part of the pot. Quite a scene happened afterward that was rather entertaining. b [/ QUOTE ] Yes rules do vary and I remember from when this has come upu before that where you plau has this rule. I would also say it is about even money that if they have written rules the rule covering this is in there (I have known quite a few people that are relatively inexperienced read their room's rulebook and be suprised to find this in there). There are in fact very few rule books out there, most places copy someone else's when they want written rules.
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#9
03-26-2006, 08:23 PM
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Re: B&M rule question on showing hands...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Board shows a straight on the river. First person bets and second person calls. First person shows two useless cards and says he's using the board. Second person says he's using the board and mucks. Does the second person lsoe and forfeits the pot to the first person? Related question: board shows Ace high. After the action first person reveals A2 for aces and uses board for kicker. Second person flips an Ace and mucks the other card. Does the second person lose and forfeits the pot? [/ QUOTE ] Both examples are dead hands if one of the cards hit the muck. You can't just announce you are playing the board, you have to turn up both cards and let the dealer determine the hand. There may be cardrooms that allow you to announce that you're playing the board and then muck your hand but it's a dangerous precedent IMO. It leads to other types of sloppy rule enforcement. There's no reason why both players shouldn't turn up both card to chop the pot. Same thing for your second example. Both cards have to be turned up. [/ QUOTE ] More erroneous answers. It's ALWAYS house dependant! As all rules are. At Bellagio, stating "I'm playing the board" will chop this pot up. And in some cardrooms you MUST show 2 live cards to ever take any pot or portion of a pot. "Live" in this instance is defined as not being a duplicate card to any shown, meaning two 10's of clubs for example.
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