100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH

kaz2107 · #1 11-10-2007, 12:10 PM

Never made a post here so i guess we will c how this goes...

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
SB: $159.73
Hero: $199.50

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $16, SB calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($32, 2 players)
Hero bets $23, SB calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($78, 2 players)
Hero ???? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Reads... the table just broke and so no real meta game goin. first time i had 3 bet him since the 10 hands of HU had started. he hadnt dont n e thing good or bad since he had been at the table. i have a laggy image from the 6 handed as well as heads up. im pretty sure i have raised every btn while heads up and then cbet every flop. but nothing specific. he had been playin like 40 14 2 while 6 handed was goin and looked like a normal goof ball but nothing to make him overly awfull or n e thing.

so wut do u do here and why. flop seems stnd to me and the turn is rough imo.

discuss...

KexChoklad123 · #2 11-10-2007, 01:23 PM

I c/c here most of the time, but I suck. Don't listen to me. I'm 90% sure bet/fold is correct here, but don't bet like a girl so that you induce an all-in. If he has you bet he will 100% move in here and you can safetly fold

Would be cool with some good players respond to this one, I for one hate these spots. Creedo where are you??

KexChoklad123 · #3 11-10-2007, 01:32 PM

When I think about it, vs an aggro crai is pretty nice. I mean he never has a K since there are 2 of the out there and a set raises the flop. Wow Im rock solid with this hand reading stuff =)

Edit: Im also drunk at work

mayday4379 · #4 11-10-2007, 01:39 PM

check call turn and see how the river goes.

KexChoklad123 · #5 11-10-2007, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
check call turn and see how the river goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I play it also, but I only like ut vs unpreditable players. Bet/fold is great vs a guy who will always push when U are beat

jay_shark · #6 11-10-2007, 02:16 PM

You can make arguments for checking or betting. We had a similar hand to this a while ago and the votes were pretty much divided .

I like checking because the k is a perfect scare card for you and you'll induce some bluffs if your opponent has second pair or even bottom pair . Betting out will probably induce bottom pair to fold and most ace-high hands .

creedofhubris · #7 11-10-2007, 08:23 PM

check/call turn, check/fold river if spade comes, otherwise check and consider whether to call, a.k.a. "play poker"

MasterLJ · #8 11-10-2007, 09:21 PM

Bet turn. You are losing so much value by not betting because all draws check behind and you are good here so much more often than not. You also are missing value from any 9 by not betting.

Against most people I play I bet this turn looking to get it in, but you'll have to judge for yourself if your opponent fits into that category. The only possible K he can have here is a weak one.

Tupacia · #9 11-10-2007, 09:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn. You are losing so much value by not betting because all draws check behind and you are good here so much more often than not. You also are missing value from any 9 by not betting.

Against most people I play I bet this turn looking to get it in, but you'll have to judge for yourself if your opponent fits into that category. The only possible K he can have here is a weak one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the only possible K he could have a weak one? I was thinking just the opposite because he called the preflop 3-bet, meaning if he has a K it's either AK or KJ, with KQ being unlikely because we have two of the Queens.

Also, I think betting the turn makes a lot more sense if the second card absent the two kings is a T or a J instead of a 9. In that instance, there are a lot more hands in his 3betting range that would have hit middle pair.

As it stands though, what 9s could he have? A9 is definitely a possibility, but even with giving him a wider calling range both K9 and Q9 aren't very likely because of the two Ks on the board and the two Qs in our hand. J9s could be in his calling range, but beyond that I don't think we're missing out on much value by checking the turn. If the opponent checks behind on the turn, we're still going to get a decent amount of value out of 9s and middle pairs with our river value bet.

MasterLJ · #10 11-10-2007, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn. You are losing so much value by not betting because all draws check behind and you are good here so much more often than not. You also are missing value from any 9 by not betting.

Against most people I play I bet this turn looking to get it in, but you'll have to judge for yourself if your opponent fits into that category. The only possible K he can have here is a weak one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the only possible K he could have a weak one? I was thinking just the opposite because he called the preflop 3-bet, meaning if he has a K it's either AK or KJ, with KQ being unlikely because we have two of the Queens.

Also, I think betting the turn makes a lot more sense if the second card absent the two kings is a T or a J instead of a 9. In that instance, there are a lot more hands in his 3betting range that would have hit middle pair.

As it stands though, what 9s could he have? A9 is definitely a possibility, but even with giving him a wider calling range both K9 and Q9 aren't very likely because of the two Ks on the board and the two Qs in our hand. J9s could be in his calling range, but beyond that I don't think we're missing out on much value by checking the turn. If the opponent checks behind on the turn, we're still going to get a decent amount of value out of 9s and middle pairs with our river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's basically like this, any hand that beats you would have shipped it in on the flop since that's one of the drawiest possible and they have no motivation to flat call. Not only that but AK will generally push pre.

His range of hands that calls a turn (and possibly river bet) is pretty big, A9, TT, JJ and any one of the hojillion draws that are present.

The bottom line is that you are ahead here so much more often than not and need to get value. At times I just stop thinking about the retarded hands villains are floating my flop bets with, and start thinking about the fact that my hand is good here 90%+ of the time.