AC question

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

i have a limited understanding of AC, but i have seen it mentioned that stuff will sort itself out. in the third world country where i live, it is widely known the police work as follows:

if you commit a crime, you can pay a fine to not go to jail.

if someone commits a crime against you, tipping the police will help them resolve the issue faster (if at all).

so essentially, law enforcement is a business and you can see that poor people without financial means will get screwed over.

?

[Nielsio]

'The police' is a violent monopoly and everyone gets screwed over who isn't part of the ruling class or their connected friends.

Just look at private security; have you ever seen those guys taze somebody, extort them (as described above), or kidnap someone and throw them in a dungeon to be raped? No!

The purpose of private security is to be more useful than what they cost. I've talked to people like that at stores and supermarkets and their mindset is excellent. They understand that they are there to serve the company and thus: prevent losses, give people a sense of safety and pleasure during their stay, and help out in others way (like when they are just standing around they gladly help a hand for the store; because they understand *that they need to be valuable*).

[Phil153]

Nielsio,

When was the last time you saw a bouncer in action?

Now remove the police, the laws, and give them guns and power. Does their demeanor improve?

[ QUOTE ]
Just look at private security; have you ever seen those guys taze somebody, extort them (as described above), or kidnap someone and throw them in a dungeon to be raped? No!

[/ QUOTE ]
Is your point so pathetically weak that you need to use propaganda words? It's not a dungeon, it's a prison. And they're not kidnapped, they're tried according to lawful procedure in front a jury of their peers.

Are you suggesting people wouldn't go to jail (or thrown into a dungeon to be raped) if private security is in charge? What punishment system will deter anti social people from crime, rape and so on? You live in lala land if you think some people won't still require jailing.

[tame_deuces]

Private security is hopeless, there is much less respect for rules/norms and the room for things getting out of hand is much, much bigger. I've worked in it, and I've seen my fair share of bad behavior, so don't come here and sprout some nice-scented fake lie about it.

[tomdemaine]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
i have a limited understanding of AC, but i have seen it mentioned that stuff will sort itself out. in the third world country where i live, it is widely known the police work as follows:

if you commit a crime, you can pay a fine to not go to jail.

if someone commits a crime against you, tipping the police will help them resolve the issue faster (if at all).

so essentially, law enforcement is a business and you can see that poor people without financial means will get screwed over.

?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's government for you...

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't waste your time reading that, there's nothing in there except "the market will supply it" and links to this thread (where ACism gets owned):

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7415812

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
i have a limited understanding of AC, but i have seen it mentioned that stuff will sort itself out. in the third world country where i live, it is widely known the police work as follows:

if you commit a crime, you can pay a fine to not go to jail.

if someone commits a crime against you, tipping the police will help them resolve the issue faster (if at all).

so essentially, law enforcement is a business and you can see that poor people without financial means will get screwed over.

?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is police enforcement under a state. What does this have to do with police services in the absence of a state?

Also,

For one example of stateless law and order, you can read up on the Xeer (although he talks more about law and courts than police).

For an outline of the production of security in a modern technological society based on a high degree of specialization, the division of labor and exchange, you can read Hoppe's Private Production of Defense, from Essays in Political Economy.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
i have a limited understanding of AC, but i have seen it mentioned that stuff will sort itself out. in the third world country where i live, it is widely known the police work as follows:

if you commit a crime, you can pay a fine to not go to jail.

if someone commits a crime against you, tipping the police will help them resolve the issue faster (if at all).

so essentially, law enforcement is a business and you can see that poor people without financial means will get screwed over.

?

[/ QUOTE ]

The question of law enforcement will always be a big one. AC doesn't suggest that things will merely "work themselves out." It suggests that we can work things out.

The police in your country are given power by the government to do (basically) whatever they please. The goal of AC is to prevent this kind of corruption by making all parties accountable.

[tame_deuces]

This seems like taking a problem, grossly over-simplifying it and then suggesting that in a relatively untried setting solving the problem won't be a problem or that it won't arise at all.

It actually worries me that the AC supporters seem so intent on reducing issues of complexity into extraordinarily simple equations with very clear causes and answers.