Villain open shove flops in 3bet pot

[MRBAA]

"No real reads on villain here, but he seems pretty bad. "

With a read that villain is in fact very reckless/bluffing maniac, of course this would be a snap call. But op says he really doesn't have a read -- other that villain "seems bad". But a bad player who will make foolish calls preflop is a lot different than a bad player who will go all in for 4x pot/340bbs post flop.

[JFsports]

I think shoving 5x pot is a read that villain is bad. My default would be to call here unless I'd a read not to

[Panthro]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like the consensus is "omg, I have Kings, I call". Or maybe "rofl, other players are all maniacs, I call".

Or is there a level of actual thought I'm missing here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly anyone ever takes this line with a hand that beats hero.

[Nielsio]

lol, people still talking about this hand?

[Chargers In 07]

[ QUOTE ]
He doesn't have implied odds in a threebet pot. So since its already a winning play

[/ QUOTE ]quite sure you're wrong about this if you're thinking a pocket pair because he's getting 12.375:1 on his call preflop w/implied odds.

[MRBAA]

"Hardly anyone takes this line with a hand that beats hero".

This seems clearly wrong.

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
You can fold because you are far from pot commited and it's pretty likely you're beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know this because you fold here so often and get to see the idiot's cards, right?

Oh, wait...

Folding here is burning money. It's laughable that you advocate "saving" money when folding here as a favorite over his range is a $56 mistake. You have to play a [censored] ton of winning poker to make that up.


Board: 7s 8h Qs
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.767% 40.16% 00.61% 31008 472.50 { QQ+, 99-88, AsKs, AsJs, AsTs, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, JTs, Q8o+, JTo }
Hand 1: 59.233% 58.62% 00.61% 45267 472.50 { KcKh }

$386*.59 = $226 - $170 to call = $56.

[MRBAA]

Here's the thing, though. The real question is how does his large push affect his likely range? Barry Greenstein has written very well about this in his book. He recounts a hand where he was a huge odds dog to have the nuts, but actually did. The guy who called went into a big odds discussion, but Greenstein points out that, to him, it was 100% obvious he had th enuts since he never would have gone all in otherwise.

Anyway, Against an idiot/or maniac you are clearly a big favorite. Against a more typical loose/bad player, I think you are behind substantially more often than ahead when they are willing to put this much into the pot.

[Suigin406]

lol at folding, fist pump time

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If this were a 27Q board, it's a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG. I snap call both (and I am not a calling station !!!).

[/ QUOTE ]
i rarely see a villain making overbet pushes with that type of board - only on drawy ones b/c 1) they hit their hand hard, or 2) they have a nice looking draw