Updated Cliff Notes On Absolute Poker Scandal (18th October) - Page 37

ikestoys · #**361** 10-18-2007, 03:41 PM

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Do you really think it only happened in one tourney? I think there were several months worth of cash games and tournies that were cheated.

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Well thats great that you think that, but until you back it up with evidence it means nothing to me or anyone else.
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I also have two theories on why they were caught.

1) they were cheating for a long time and became very complacent. I don't think that tourney winner was very smart nor a very good poker player. Why did they let him play with those super powers? They really let their guard down!

2) there were many people involved and someone was not happy with the 'cut they were getting' and 'tried to get caught'. Greed does strange things to people. Revenge!

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn

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again, or they were just fish that could see the hole cards.

Injection · #**362** 10-18-2007, 03:42 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think it only happened in one tourney? I think there were several months worth of cash games and tournies that were cheated. I also have two theories on why they were caught.

1) they were cheating for a long time and became very complacent. I don't think that tourney winner was very smart nor a very good poker player. Why did they let him play with those super powers? They really let their guard down!

2) there were many people involved and someone was not happy with the 'cut they were getting' and 'tried to get caught'. Greed does strange things to people. Revenge!

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn

[/ QUOTE ]

IT TOOK A LONG time because soooo many people will defend online poker "not being rigged" untill they day they die.. That turns over into people not looking for "wrongs" such as this occuring. We have no one to thank but ourselves for shumming the [censored] outta people when they bring up a post that says something isnt right.

We simply tell them to get a million hand sample then come back... by then the cheating may have been obscured.... or the player cheating them accoutns changed... therefor the player just appears to suck at poker and everyone is being hurt a little bit at a time. But [censored] adds up over time....

Many of you (us) need to take a look in the miror and think of how many time (you) us shunned a player posting with less then 10 posts and called him out...

as stated before if done right, carefully, the cheaters MAY have never been caught.

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[x] proof of cheating requires a one million hand sample size

Oski · #**363** 10-18-2007, 03:42 PM

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Many of you (us) need to take a look in the miror and think of how many time (you) us shunned a player posting with less then 10 posts and called him out...

as stated before if done right, carefully, the cheaters MAY have never been caught.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first person I see when looking into that mirror is Granny Mae.

adanthar · #**364** 10-18-2007, 03:44 PM

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I'll clarify. In this instance the gaming commission has announced "they" are pushing forward the audit.

This seemed like a big deal and more transparent than Absolute Poker calling for the audit before it was revealed that Tokwiro enterprises owns AP and that Joseph Tokwiro Norton founded the MIT campus on which the servers are located.
He also is credited in various places for founding the gaming commission during his chief(dom?).

I wasn't referring to the outside agency as being the same entity- I was saying in this case that the gaming commission calling for the audit is almost no different than the company itself calling for it.
The perception the commission creates is that somehow it's this separate impartial entity- and I was pointing out that in this case all parties except the auditing firm are tied back to one person.

It may have been slightly inaccurate to say they are auditing themselves, but it's a lot more accurate than simply calling it an independant commission bringing in an outside firm to audit a company they only lease server time to.
I thought it was important to directly rebut the perception that because it's the commission calling for the audit instead of the company that it would somehow be more impartial.
If my toes got across the line- I'll live with it.

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Keep in mind that KGC aren't doing the audit themselves; they are employing Gaming Associates (who seem reputable by all accounts) to do it.

What they'll find is another story, but they are definitely terrified enough to get on this.

coltranedog · #**365** 10-18-2007, 03:44 PM

I'd be shocked if The a Native Canadian company (mohawk) actually owned AP and UB.

Not saying that they don't, just saying that there are plenty of explanations for listing them as the owners, without them being the actual owners.

ikestoys · #**366** 10-18-2007, 03:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think it only happened in one tourney? I think there were several months worth of cash games and tournies that were cheated. I also have two theories on why they were caught.

1) they were cheating for a long time and became very complacent. I don't think that tourney winner was very smart nor a very good poker player. Why did they let him play with those super powers? They really let their guard down!

2) there were many people involved and someone was not happy with the 'cut they were getting' and 'tried to get caught'. Greed does strange things to people. Revenge!

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn

[/ QUOTE ]

IT TOOK A LONG time because soooo many people will defend online poker "not being rigged" untill they day they die.. That turns over into people not looking for "wrongs" such as this occuring. We have no one to thank but ourselves for shumming the [censored] outta people when they bring up a post that says something isnt right.

We simply tell them to get a million hand sample then come back... by then the cheating may have been obscured.... or the player cheating them accoutns changed... therefor the player just appears to suck at poker and everyone is being hurt a little bit at a time. But [censored] adds up over time....

Many of you (us) need to take a look in the miror and think of how many time (you) us shunned a player posting with less then 10 posts and called him out...

as stated before if done right, carefully, the cheaters MAY have never been caught.

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] proof of cheating requires a one million hand sample size

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yeah......

no

KurtSF · #**367** 10-18-2007, 03:47 PM

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There is now an article on theregister, one of the bigger online tech sites.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10...g_allegations/

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Nice job dlorc! theregister is one of the best places evar for tech news. Word is spreading.

Injection · #**368** 10-18-2007, 03:47 PM

obv

FoxInTheHenHouse · #**369** 10-18-2007, 03:49 PM

There has been a lot of discussion as to whether it's in everyones best interest for news of this scandal to reach the main stream media.

I think it's ABSOLUTELY imperative that this story breaks worldwide. My reasoning is quite simple and logical.

1) if this happened at Absolute, it sure as hell can happen elsewhere. It may be happening in other poker rooms already. By bringing Absolute to there knees here, we may force all poker sites to look long and hard at their security and plug any leaks they find.

2) in order to bring Absolute to task on this, we need the mass media to focus on them.

3) while the fallout from this may hurt us as affiliates, poker players, webmasters in the short term, the industry will gain credibility and trust in the long term.

4) as a player, I'll find it much more comforting making my next deposit (where ever that may be) knowing that a site the size of Absolute can be brought to justice by a few poker players with the smarts to smell trouble and the ability to publicize their findings in a way that made the world take notice.

As an affiliate of Absolute (and many other sites) I wrestled with this for a long time before deciding it was the right course of action. I blacklisted them on my site early yesterday so I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I figure any commissions they owe me are gone but I'm willing to put the good of the industry ahead of my personal gain in this case. I know there are many other site operators who did the same and I commend them for their selflessness.

i hope that when this is finally over we will hear from FT, Stars, etc. that they have done an internal audit and can assure the poker playing community that this will not ever happen on their sites.

HSB · #**370** 10-18-2007, 03:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
IT TOOK A LONG time because soooo many people will defend online poker "not being rigged" untill they day they die.. That turns over into people not looking for "wrongs" such as this occuring. We have no one to thank but ourselves for shumming the [censored] outta people when they bring up a post that says something isnt right.

We simply tell them to get a million hand sample then come back... by then the cheating may have been obscured.... or the player cheating them accoutns changed... therefor the player just appears to suck at poker and everyone is being hurt a little bit at a time. But [censored] adds up over time....

Many of you (us) need to take a look in the miror and think of how many time (you) us shunned a player posting with less then 10 posts and called him out...

as stated before if done right, carefully, the cheaters MAY have never been caught.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is complete nonsense. Demanding evidence of wrongdoing is absolutely the right thing to do.

Think about it, in the entire history of online poker there have been approximately seventeen billion accusations of things not being kosher and this is the second time something has been funky with a site.