Let's build a business.

[Chaostracize]

I was PMing Taylor Caby, and byt the time I'd finished I realized that I should really throw this on up here as well. I figure my other thread has taken its course, since an oxygen bar doesn't seem to be a good fit with my target audience, and hence my new thread.

There were some really good ideas I got out of the last thread and it got me to thinking.

The layout of the building is somewhat narrow. Narrow in the fact that if you want to make it an income producer for residential the bedrooms would have to be really small. This wouldn't work with wanting to make this place more of a luxury deal, so that is why I'm starting to lean away from residential, and fast.

Over the weekend I'll try to get pictures up so everyone can visualize the space and the location (the latter being a huge reason why a palce like this would do well).

There are a dozen bars located in close vicinity and once 1 am hits the whole town just shuts down. Having a multi-tiered business that can cater to the needs of both the late-nighter and the random streetwalker, really appeals to me. I'd like to be able to hit all sorts of people, not just a specific student crowd, even.

This is all very general right now, but there were some great ideas in the last thread, and now that I'm thinking more along the lines of being able to do absolutely anything, I think I'd like some help visualizing the place I'm already starting to conceptualize.

So, here is the PM...

Could you throw me your AIM name? I'd be interested in discussing some more ideas for a business. I'm somewhat becoming disenchanted with the idea of using the are for student housing, and becoming more intrigued by the idea of a 4 story lounge.

All the ideas in the thread were good, and sinec I would own the building and the cost of updating would be a lot cheaper than what I had originally intended, what with shifting staircases, etc. I figure the place could be a really sweet multi-layered business, with multiple income streams.

First floor, walk in, neat, cozy, sofas, bit of food, managable pastry-esque food, free wi-fi if you buy something, 10 cents/minute if you don't (or something to that effect), beer on tap a possibility, hookahs if that becomes a possibility as well, go to second floor, some old school video games, TMNT, DDR, Simpsons, all lining the walls, back near where the windows are, another little lounge area, go to the third floor, $2 cover, dance floor, DJ booth, black lights, go to the fourth floor...?

Let me know what your initial thoughts are.

This is Ithaca, I'm talking about as well. So this is in the commons area, with Ithaca College and Cornell University all close by. Nothing like this is here, but I envision a kind of Walmart for Student entertainment and needs. So many times I've thought about how I wanted to go somewhere and do something, and there was no venue. I can create a venue. I could even rent out the top space purely for groups who want a chill meeting place. The windows of the building looks right out on the Commons, so I just keep thinking about how great it would be to let passersby check out the different things to be done on all floors. Kind of like a bribe, almost.

Screw it, I'm sending this to you, but I think I'm going to post it, too. I know tha tyou are entrepeneurial anyway, so I'd still like to get in contact you and hear your thoughts directly.

Thanks

-Josh

[knowledgeORbust]

Interesting idea. Seems like a good spot for this kind of thing, too. I've got a friend that goes to Colgate and there is jack [censored] to do around that area (except TS obv.) Fun place to own and hang out at, probably get a pretty cool crowd, etc.

Some problems are your target audience is <drunk> college kids. I'd say "broke," but I think lots of kids at those schools have plenty of monies from parents. I'd be a little worried about crap getting broken, too. Beer on tap would probably be a key in turning a profit.

[Evan]

I think charging a cover is a bad idea, and if you're going to do it it should be more. There's such a big difference in perception between no cover and the smallest cover imaginable, that I think you're better off cutting it out all together or making it more. A $2 cover seems like the worst of both worlds.

I don't have a ton of experience in Ithaca, how many places actually have covers there?

[roaaahhh]

edit - ya, don't make crap posts bro.

[Cornell Fiji]

note: I tried to segment my response but it is rambling and I am too tired to go back and edit.

<u>Market</u>
I don't think you are really going to draw a lot of Cornell kids, they just don't go out to the commons at night given all of the alternatives up the hill. You will be able to draw on IC as well as the local Ithaca rifraff that is looking for something to do. You might also have a draw from shows being let out of Ithaca State Theater if you turn yourself into a cool stoner venue (which seems like a must given your target demo).

There are definitely people looking for something to do when the bars go out which is a plus. I just don't think they are going to be interested in your emporium type venue.

<u>Wait... what are you doing?</u>
Serving alcohol gets expensive with permits and zoning. Do you have any experience with this?

Serving food gets expensive with regulations and storage and a million other things I don't know much about. Do you have any experience with this?

The Hookah bar could definitely fill a need as to my knowledge there isn't one in Ithaca and there is an overlap between your demographic and people who would go to a hookah bar. I think this is the best aspect of your plan.

The video games are doable with little investment.

I think that in order to do all of these things your staff would have to be pretty huge and you would have a lot of variable costs that would be hard to overcome.

<u>Competition</u>

So... you want to be like Pixel on Dryden?

I never went in there nor did any of my friends but there were drunk Asians playing DDR a lot so I would not be surprised if they turned a profit.

They already have a liquor license though and they already have a presence so the Asians at Cornell will go out and get drunk and play DDR at Pixel and not at your place. If you go through with this plan you better spend a lot of time at Pixel analyzing how they do things.

Other competition, it will be hard to draw people away from the bars unless you cater to the IHS/underage IC crowd. Your idea might actually serve better as a kiddie hangout for the Ithaca high schoolers (I envision a mix between the emporium in Dazed and Confused and Pixel) because I am unsure why anyone who can go to the bar would go to your narrow place instead.

Overall, I just don't see the draw. I don't know why anyone would go to your place and I don't really know what your place will have or do. I think at this stage your idea is pretty worthless... but you do have a great location, and you can definitely build a successful venue with a lot more thought.


-Steve

[ne14dirt]

My first impression was that this is a place for 12 to 17 year old to hang out at. I also feel like you are describing most local youth centers in the western United States.

Like Cornell Fiji I think the hookah aspect of your plan is by far and away the best.

I can’t say that I am familiar with the area but I can remember when I was in college, me and my friends would go to coffee houses that had a mellow atmosphere and were comfortably decorated. I feel like hookah would fit that mix, so would wi-fi and the possibility of after hour bands but for the most part if I wanted to play video games I would go to the arcade, if I wanted to drink I would go to the bar and if I wanted to be mellow I would go to a coffee house. That being said, I’m comfortable going to all these places and like that they all have their own separate environments and personally would be extremely unlikely to patronize an establishment that housed all of these activities under one roof. I’m not saying that it can’t be done but I guess I just think it doesn’t work 99% of the time.

I had some more stuff to say but the closer I look at Cornell’s post the more I just want to say ditto.

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
note: I tried to segment my response but it is rambling and I am too tired to go back and edit.

<u>Market</u>
I don't think you are really going to draw a lot of Cornell kids, they just don't go out to the commons at night given all of the alternatives up the hill. You will be able to draw on IC as well as the local Ithaca rifraff that is looking for something to do. You might also have a draw from shows being let out of Ithaca State Theater if you turn yourself into a cool stoner venue (which seems like a must given your target demo).

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely be catering to more of the IC crowd. Having lived in Collegetown I know few Cornell students will be willing to make the trip down to the Commons for a place like this. The turn-on for this idea is that it caters to those who are there...by making it eye-catchy drunk kids can stumble in and have a variety of things to do. An idea in the previous thread was to host some kind of tournaments, and unless I'm mistaken, Pixel doesn't do that. Have a few DDR competitions, and I can start building some of a base. The purpose of a place like this, is just to get people in the door. Then it's my job to have enough things for people to spend money on, so they aren't just coming in for a hookah and leaving, likewise with whatever happens, arcade games, food, coffee, etc. The thing is, that all of Ithaca essentially shuts down at 1 am, and if I can somehow make it easy for Cornell students to come to the commons, then I'd have it made. Maybe some kind of promotion where if you show your Cornell ID, you get a free drink, or something like that. Where what I've lost is way overcome by what I've gained.

[ QUOTE ]
There are definitely people looking for something to do when the bars go out which is a plus. I just don't think they are going to be interested in your emporium type venue.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would they be interested in then? Obviously, this is the crux. There are so many bars downtown, though, and once 1 am hits, there are so many who won't be able to turn down the allure of a place where they still have some latenight options (imo).

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Wait... what are you doing?</u>
Serving alcohol gets expensive with permits and zoning. Do you have any experience with this?

[/ QUOTE ]

No experience with anything. I'm quite ok with failing. I'd rather fail a dozen times now, but at least get the experience in.

[ QUOTE ]
Serving food gets expensive with regulations and storage and a million other things I don't know much about. Do you have any experience with this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, none. How does regulation and storage affect the expense of food?

[ QUOTE ]
The Hookah bar could definitely fill a need as to my knowledge there isn't one in Ithaca and there is an overlap between your demographic and people who would go to a hookah bar. I think this is the best aspect of your plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is the highlight. In terms of start-up costs, this will be the cheapest endeavor, as well.

[ QUOTE ]
The video games are doable with little investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends almost entirely on the game. This company has an excellent selection of games ranging from $1250 to near $6000. It really depends on what I want, but I can't see a place filled with just old school games. Couple shooters, couple fighters, a DDR, couple racing games...It will add up really, really quickly.

[ QUOTE ]
I think that in order to do all of these things your staff would have to be pretty huge and you would have a lot of variable costs that would be hard to overcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed and disagreed. I would need a decent amount of staff, but in terms of it being a four floor deal, I don't think it will need relatively more. 1 or 2 counter people for food/hookahs, arcade person, server, DJ, Techie/random, and that's about it. The variable costs to overcome, are the same as in any business...overhead, and making a thorough enough business plan to be somewhat certian that I won't get swallowed by the bank's juice.

[ QUOTE ]
<u>Competition</u>

So... you want to be like Pixel on Dryden?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no, but as far as I'm concerned mostly no. I've actually never been in Pixel, but with it's location I imagine it was dingy, Dunbar's-style. This might be wrong, someone would have to correct me. Pixel to me is just a bar that wanted to stand out by having arcade games. They do no advertising and are entirely missable unless you know someone else who has been there.

[ QUOTE ]
I never went in there nor did any of my friends but there were drunk Asians playing DDR a lot so I would not be surprised if they turned a profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word.

[ QUOTE ]
They already have a liquor license though and they already have a presence so the Asians at Cornell will go out and get drunk and play DDR at Pixel and not at your place. If you go through with this plan you better spend a lot of time at Pixel analyzing how they do things.

[/ QUOTE ]

They win with this demographic due purely to proximity. If I can do some promotional advertising I should be able to obtain some of that client base.

[ QUOTE ]
Other competition, it will be hard to draw people away from the bars unless you cater to the IHS/underage IC crowd. Your idea might actually serve better as a kiddie hangout for the Ithaca high schoolers (I envision a mix between the emporium in Dazed and Confused and Pixel) because I am unsure why anyone who can go to the bar would go to your narrow place instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea is to cater to both crowds, which I don't think is as ludicrous as it sounds. No dude is thinking "I'm drunk, why the hell do I want to go to a dry dance club?" Because the next thought is: "...with 18 year old girls?" If I can get girls into the dance floor, then I can get all guys, too. Once again, this is a need that just isn't served. There was Club Euphoria that just shut down, but they did like no advertising, as far as I was aware, and their location wasn't prime and right on the Commons. I think the problem that you are having when envisioning this is that you are giving too much thought to the arcade section. This isn't going to be an arcade, nor do I want to open an arcade. If I get like 10 games in there, great, income producers. But it's more about having the experience of being able to do a variety of different things once the rest of the town closes down.

[ QUOTE ]
Overall, I just don't see the draw. I don't know why anyone would go to your place and I don't really know what your place will have or do. I think at this stage your idea is pretty worthless... but you do have a great location, and you can definitely build a successful venue with a lot more thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Italics added [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. The reason that you don't really know what the business will be, is that I'm still fleshing it out. That's the purpose of the post...to get ideas of what people felt was missing in their old collegetown and apply it here.


To sum this up, I would say getting high schoolers in there would be the touch of death. A place like this will only succeed through the image it has. If it's viewed as kiddie day care, no college student will come. This is going to be an 18+ place (at night at least). I am deifnitely going to look into getting beer on tap, because I think that is almost definitely a necessity. I don't care to go through hoops to get a full-fledged liquor license.

[slush fund]

this idea sounds like it would need a lot of start up costs and a lot of capital to keep it running while it grows to profitability. do you have access to that kind of roll? i honestly dont think this is the idea that a first timer should attempt.

i like the idea, would probably hang out there with my laptop. i just think that big of a place would burn thru a lot of cash real quick. 4 floors of space comes to how much rent per month? i pay about $21-$23 per sq. ft. on a five year escalating lease for 3500 square feet. i would guess 4 floors has to have close to that much space. that's before the insurance the landlord sticks you with. then you have to have a few employees, i don't think you could run the whole shop yourself. trust me, employees, for what you get out of them, can be you costliest expense. then you have to fill the place with all the furniture, games, etc., thats before you bring in dollar one.

i do think you may be trying to do too much also. this is just a personal opinion because my business doesn't market to the public so i don't know jack about selling to the public, but maybe you just want to scale down a little and focus on one of the ideas for the floors, like the internet lounge thing, or the arcade thing in a smaller space.

as your idea stands now, i don't know if you realize what a large undertaking it is and how much capital you would realistically need to make it work. honestly, do you have access to that large of a bankroll and are you willing to risk it on this? if you do, then good luck to you and update us as you go

[samjjones]

Isn't rent a non-factor? OP is buying the building outright, I thought.

Also, how much do liquor licenses/insurance run for in Ithaca? That could may be prohibitive.

[cts]

just curious, how profitable would you expect (or like) something like this to be? with reasonable success, in 2 years how much do you expect to be banking into your pocket and how much of your time would you be continuing to put into the business?

i'm all for doing it for the experience but it just doesn't seem like there is much money in it if that's what your after