trying to find more spots for value on the river....

[ChexNFX]

Oink, what was your name on UB? AP?

[jstill]

anyone who thinks we're good anywhere near 1 in 20 after we get 3bet on the river here is nuts.

I find in poker if u are playing well, for the most part, ur strategy will be balanced enough that raise folding on occassion or bet folding (since it really doesnt come up that often since u have to do it in a spot where u would fold and he has to 3bet) will not be exploitable even against observant thinking opponents for the most part. Not to mention the fact most people are only playing their own cards and when theyre not, they usually bluff and play back at all the wrong times in the wrong ways so u mite even make MORE money when the donks or maniacs notice u doing things like that. Once metagame developes or u have a super spewy read taking lines like this should be lessened by here this is a pretty standard raise fold I think. and as gehrig said I wouldnt raise the turn just becuz so many bad cards can come and he has air or a weak pair here a lot.

[danzasmack]

Wow on a 986 3 board nobody wants to raise the turn and not the river?

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow on a 986 3 board nobody wants to raise the turn and not the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

My argument for waiting for the river, is that my line is a little weird and I could probably get the villian to pay off some hands he should fold to a raise like a weak 9 or an 8. This guy seemed like a very aggressive TAG (AF:4) so I figured if he was semi-bluffing on a draw he would take another stab at the river so I'd get the two bets anyway. If a T,7, or 5 came I was calling, not sure about my line if a J falls.

I figure if I raise the turn he's only calling if he has a draw as well, and then I don't get a third bet out of him on the river when I'm ahead as he probably won't call a river bet with a worse pair at that point.

summary: against this villain I thought I made more and lost less if I raised on the river instead of the turn.

[yourface]

if I just call his flop c/r I'm definately planning on raising a safe turn, and that is a safe turn.

the 4th best limit player in the world doesn't seem to like a raise though so I'm kinda confused.

[danzasmack]

I gotta tell you, I have no idea where these games exist where someone folds any 9 on this board. Or an 8. Or a pair.

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta tell you, I have no idea where these games exist where someone folds any 9 on this board. Or an 8. Or a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've been playing too much HU, and probably for higher stakes than I do. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I'll admit that he might call down with an 8 on a turn raise, but I still think if he is drawing or has a pair lower than a 9 I get the third bet more often waiting to raise on the river.

[danzasmack]

I dunno absolute games used to be crazy aggro, even at the 3/6 level.

Well then my only advice is semibluff more but i still think a turn raise is best. You still have to consider the straight coming in on the river and now he checks and you cost yourself value.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you've been playing too much HU, and probably for higher stakes than I do. I'll admit that he might call down with an 8 on a turn raise, but I still think if he is drawing or has a pair lower than a 9 I get the third bet more often waiting to raise on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play the 3/6 and 5/T at AP. If I am villain in this hand you will not maximize your winnings with a river raise.

- I will be much more inclined to fold an 8 to a river raise. Especially if the river is a blank. Against a decent player I am calling down most rivers to a turn raise on that board.
- If I am on a draw I will obviously not pay 2 bets on the river.

I agree with Danza. This is a turn raise IMO.

[thepizzlefosho]

I'm definitely open to the idea that I totally played this hand wrong. but I still keep thinking against this aggressive of a player I get more by making the fishy play on the river than popping him on the turn if he is doing this with middle pair or worse.

Gehrig care to give your argument for a river raise?