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#1
10-04-2007, 01:11 PM
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value check
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls. Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls. Turn: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> UTG checks, Hero... Here's the deal. At this point, villain is unknown and has exactly 3BB left. I feel that he might pull the trigger here often. Do you feel that i could call additional 2 bets from this guy if i get raised here ? Also could this be a spot for a value check ? He's probably gonna pop any river with this low stack if i check. 
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#2
10-04-2007, 01:22 PM
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Re: value check
[ QUOTE ]
...villain is unknown... I feel that he might pull the trigger here often. [/ QUOTE ] What makes you think this? What makes you think it more likely that he'll pull the trigger (I assume you mean c/r with air?) than fold? Do you want him to fold a worse hand than yours? Do you want him to bluff a hand worse than yours? Do you think it's more likely that he'll bluff c/r the turn if you bet, or bluff bet the river if you check? Enquiring minds want to know. Edit in white below (Riku don't read until after you've responded): <font color="white">Writing stuff like "I think that he might pull the trigger here often," is just a wishy-washy way of saying, "I'm scared." Stop being scared, it makes you play weak-tight. Villans with 3bb left in their stack are either ridiculously weak-tight or ridiculously loose; either way, it's not going to make a gigantic difference what you do. Fire one more time, if he folds he'd probably not have bluffed the river, anyway, if he raises you're going to call/call because he's shortstacked and it's not beyond 2:1 that you have the best hand.</font>
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#4
10-04-2007, 01:42 PM
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Re: value check
"What makes you think this?"
People with just a few bets usually push it all in at some point. They want to get it over with. "...than fold?" He's most likely not going to fold because of his short stack. And i don't want him to. "Do you want him to fold a worse hand than yours?" No. "Do you want him to bluff a hand worse than yours?" I sure do. "Do you think it's more likely that he'll bluff c/r the turn if you bet, or bluff bet the river if you check?" Honestly, im not sure which one is more likely. But i guess it all boils down to the question whether i can call with my Ace if he check raises me. If i don't know what im going to do if he check raises me, i might sometimes fold the winner but sometimes induce a bluff on the river. Now let me read the white stuff.
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#5
10-04-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: value check
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the significance of him having 3bb left. [/ QUOTE ] Shortstacked players play differently. The two possibilities are that he puts all of it in on the next two streets or none, and those possibilities aren't at all indicative of the strength of his hand. So, there are almost 5 bets in, if he puts in 3 more are you 2.6-ish:1 to be good?
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#6
10-04-2007, 01:49 PM
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Re: value check
[ QUOTE ]
i might sometimes fold the winner [/ QUOTE ] Folding to his c/r would be very bad. If he c/r's, you'll be getting almost 8:1 to call, and it's overwhelmingly likely that you've got at least 5 clean outs if you're behind, and some percentage of the time you're still ahead. Basically you should be planning to put in up to 3 bets here, the only question is whether there's a significant difference if you bet or not.
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#7
10-04-2007, 01:53 PM
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Re: value check
check behind and call a river bet. If his hand is worse then yours, then he is probably folding to a turn bet. He may be induced to bet the river though. I hate bet/calling and calling a river bet here. It seems like a good way to spew when we don't have the best hand. I'd rather showdown for 0-1 bets.
Buzz
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#9
10-04-2007, 01:58 PM
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Re: value check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i might sometimes fold the winner [/ QUOTE ] Folding to his c/r would be very bad. If he c/r's, you'll be getting almost 8:1 to call, and it's overwhelmingly likely that you've got at least 5 clean outs if you're behind, and some percentage of the time you're still ahead. Basically you should be planning to put in up to 3 bets here, the only question is whether there's a significant difference if you bet or not. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, i just realized this.
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#10
10-04-2007, 07:57 PM
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Re: value check
3BBs left ... you can assume he sucks - or is on tilt
if he check raises the turn ... put him all in *** value checks can be used against aggro players: the situation should be that you have no idea where you stand against a turn c.r and know the guy is such a tard that he'll bet pretty much any river can be used when you've been slowing down on the turn and giving up lately ... and you are against someone who is aggressive and would take notice of something like that
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