*Red Sox thread* News, views, and love for the front office

[Paluka]

Who cares that Wells is hurt? Was anyone really thinking our success this season hinged on fat boy? There isn't a team in baseball that doesn't have question marks about their 5th starter. Having Arroyo would be nice, but having Willy Mo is nice too. I don't love the trade, but it certainly isn't a disaster.

[Toro]

We'll see about all that. But whenever a move looks bad, like Renteria last year, and I point it out, you get the rose colored glasses and defend the FO. But when the FO decided to dump him you went 180 and agreed he was mistake and it was good move to let him go.

It's ok to question Theo and the FO, they're not infallible.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
We'll see about all that. But whenever a move looks bad, like Renteria last year, and I point it out, you get the rose colored glasses and defend the FO. But when the FO decided to dump him you went 180 and agreed he was mistake and it was good move to let him go.

It's ok to question Theo and the FO, they're not infallible.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so why has the deal been bad?

how has pena been bad?

have you looked at how dinardo has pitched in the past (minors and majors)?

also, i was happy they got marte for renteria. the signing was a mistake, however you were saying so after 200 AB's or so into a 3 year deal which i responded to saying maybe it would be wise to give the guy a decent amount of AB's to prvoe his worth.

so while you can accuse me of being a FO sympathizer, i can easily accuse you of being a WEEIdiot.

[ QUOTE ]
But whenever a move looks bad, like Renteria last year, and I point it out, you get the rose colored glasses and defend the FO. But

[/ QUOTE ]

so i did that once and its suddenly a pattern or something?

[Toro]

Pena has not looked good to me at all. Whatever stats he's amassed were in meaningless situations. He has not contributed to one win I can think of. And why do you always resort to insults. You're a pretty good debater, always have a ton of meaningless stats to throw out, so you shouldn't have to resort to that, just make your argument.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Pena has not looked good to me at all. Whatever stats he's amassed were in meaningless situations. He has not contributed to one win I can think of. And why do you always resort to insults. You're a pretty good debater, always have a ton of meaningless stats to throw out, so you shouldn't have to resort to that, just make your argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didn't mean it as an insult, its just a term i use to describe people who draw their opinions from what they hear on EEI. i certainly didn't mean you were an idiot, i should have clarified that toro, sorry.

Pena has not looked good to me at all. Whatever stats he's amassed were in meaningless situations.

ugh, so hes an unclutch OPS 1000+. Arod part 2 i suppose. i love the 'looked to me argument' (opinion). its ALWAYS used by people who refuse to ignore statistical (fact) evidence and prefer to enhance what they think.

[ QUOTE ]
always have a ton of meaningless stats to throw out,

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah like OPS. LMAO, totally meaningless. i mean who wants to know how often a guy gets on base and how much he slugs. it would be more important to just say he has been a nonclutcher. to be honest its not the best offensive metric to use, but its the easiest to understand and compute.

i dont mean the following as an insult, but there really is no point in debating with you. enjoy easter and the game [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Toro]

I just watch the games, haven't missed many innings so far this year and from what I've seen, he doesn't impress me so far. He's got raw power and talent for sure, but whether it can be harnessed remains to be seen.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
I just watch the games, haven't missed many innings so far this year and from what I've seen, he doesn't impress me so far. He's got raw power and talent for sure, but whether it can be harnessed remains to be seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

How high would his OPS have to get before we could decide that his power and talent have been "harnessed"?

[Toro]

It's irrelevant to me. I don't play fantasy leagues so I could care less about stats. When I see him doing things that contribute to wins then I'll consider him a player.

When a guy goes 4 for 4 with 2 HR's against a cupcake pitcher in a 12 to 2 game and then goes oh for the next 3 games with strikeout after strikeout against good pitchers, I'm not impressed.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
It's irrelevant to me. I don't play fantasy leagues so I could care less about stats. When I see him doing things that contribute to wins then I'll consider him a player.

When a guy goes 4 for 4 with 2 HR's against a cupcake pitcher in a 12 to 2 game and then goes oh for the next 3 games with strikeout after strikeout against good pitchers, I'm not impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't about fantasy leagues. It is about the fact that it has been statistically shown that things like having a high OPS help win ballgames. You are saying you just don't believe in math. The fact that we have been losing lately since Pena entered the lineup is just a problem of small sample size. Of course, his high OPS this year is a small sample as well. He could still end up sucking.

[DougOzzzz]

It's one thing to argue that clutch hitting is a skill.

It's another thing to argue that a guy doesn't have it after 20 ABs.