DVD Discussion: Before Sunrise

[katyseagull]

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However, this movie(s) is so powerful for me, that I wanted to put my thoughts in, especially considering it was my DVD Club selection.

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This was your DVD Club selection?! And you're only now commenting on it? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Lol.

You touched on so many great points which I'd love to respond to. Not sure I have time now or not. If I don't get to them all I will try to later today.

As you know I love these movies. For me it isn't as much about the romance as it is about the power behind connecting with a true friend. The awesome rapport, the quick dialogue where you can tell that the two really enjoy each other and want to hear more. It is that rare instance where 2 lonely people meet someone who for whatever reason makes them feel important and interesting and makes them laugh. Just looking at pictures of the two together brings a smile to my face. The connection and sheer sense of wonder is amazing. (Right now I'm thinking about Jesse watching Celine in the apartment as she plays the guitar. Wow.)





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For what it’s worth, I think that I talk like this a lot and it annoys some of my friends. Sometimes it becomes “too much” for them. I would absolutely love to be able to talk freely and interact back and forth with someone in a way the setting of the movie depicts. They’re so free in their thoughts and with each other.

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I love people who think about life, relationships and motivations. I miss having someone like that in my life. I used to but not much anymore. I sort of like that back and forth banter, sort of like batting a tennis ball across a net, something about it that I find fascinating and fun. I don't find that in many people and when I do I really treasure it. What I like about Celine and Jesse is that they are so honest and talk with ease, like they are very old childhood friends. I like that. I still reject the notion that Jesse is "hiding" anything from Celine, or at least not being completely open about his marriage. I just reject that idea because for me it makes the entire movie insincere and I can't wrap my mind around that.

Anyway, I know I'm repeating myself but I would love to have this kind of friendship, even without the physcial side. Like Solo says, there's an intimacy that is heartwarming and exciting. I've experienced a similar type of intimacy like it myself and it is a wonderful high.





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Which leads me to another topic of interest when talking about these movies. I appreciate Before Sunset. I think it’s brilliant and the way in which it was directed. I can see the emotion, the tension. It is a thing of beauty. My problem is that I simply can’t relate to it on the level that the rest of the Loungers seem to. I don’t have enough life experience in these sorts of matters to really feel it.


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I've had a "what if" situation in my life. I think about my ex from time to time and I miss him. He and I talked a lot. Occasionally when I'm driving in my car, or walking across a campus, I will think about him and wonder if my life would have been better if we had stayed together. We had something pretty special. I could call him up right now and we would slip right back into our groove. There would be no awkwardness or bitterness. We were completely on the same wavelength whether talking about life's disappointments, politics, our funny fights, family members. We talked a lot like Jesse and Celine. I miss that.



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Her hair is falling across her face and Jesse cannot see her. He starts to reach down to brush the hair out of the way so he can see her face, just as she sits up. She notices this motion and immediately pulls her hair back. I’ve always loved that scene because it strikes me as something that most guys wouldn’t do. I don’t know, something about it seemed intimate, which was a big hook for me in believing his legitimate interest in her so early in the movie.


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Girls love this kind of intimacy. Most guys won't do this sort of thing (brush the hair out of your face) because it's a very intimate move. It shows a girl that a guy is really interested and if the girl doesn't feel the same way back it's awkward. However, if the girl feels the same attraction then it's a very great move.

[diebitter]

I rewatched these two with my wife recently, and whilst she enjoyed them, they struck no deep resonances with her. That's fine, but it got me thinking about the really great movies.

Really great movies allow you to enjoy them superficially or very, very deeply, it seems to me. It's kind of like wine. You can drink a wine and think 'mmm, nice', and that's it, but to someone who wants to appreciate wines, you can get much, much more from a good wine. You can taste all the different tastes and enjoy their interaction, and really wallow in the sensual taste experience. What is more you can return to exactly the same wine, even the same bottle, and get a different experience each time.

I use wine as the analogy, but the same can be said for music, art, food, beer etc. The really great stuff allows you to interact at so many more layers than just tasting/seeing/eating and merely moving on.

Truly great film are like this. Before Sunrise is. Casablana is. Lawrence of Arabia is. Seven Samurai is. Bride of Frankenstein is.

That doesn't mean that people enjoying it superficially are wrong. They just are working at a different layer.



I don't know why I'm saying this really, it's just it struck me somewhat after seeing BSR and BSS with my wife.

[Dominic]

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I've had a "what if" situation in my life. I think about my ex from time to time and I miss him. He and I talked a lot. Occasionally when I'm driving in my car, or walking across a campus, I will think about him and wonder if my life would have been better if we had stayed together. We had something pretty special. I could call him up right now and we would slip right back into our groove. There would be no awkwardness or bitterness. We were completely on the same wavelength whether talking about life's disappointments, politics, our funny fights, family members. We talked a lot like Jesse and Celine. I miss that.

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So why don't you??



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Her hair is falling across her face and Jesse cannot see her. He starts to reach down to brush the hair out of the way so he can see her face, just as she sits up. She notices this motion and immediately pulls her hair back. I’ve always loved that scene because it strikes me as something that most guys wouldn’t do. I don’t know, something about it seemed intimate, which was a big hook for me in believing his legitimate interest in her so early in the movie.


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Girls love this kind of intimacy. Most guys won't do this sort of thing (brush the hair out of your face) because it's a very intimate move. It shows a girl that a guy is really interested and if the girl doesn't feel the same way back it's awkward. However, if the girl feels the same attraction then it's a very great move.

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Katy, you're always saying things like "guys don't do this or feel that" and I don't like it! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] First, it just ain't true. Guys love intimacy as much as girls. And if you've found that not to be the case, you're just hanging around the wrong guys! We want that special someone, that wondrous connection, just as much as you do. We want to be able to laugh and talk and "banter" back and forth, too.

I know we've all been disappointed with our love life at one time or another, and it hurts, so maybe that's why you sound frustrated with men at times...but I guess that's fair considering the amount of female bashing you have to put up with on this sight...

Anyway...I just wanted to remind you that guys and girls are not so differant as you think, and that in the end, we all want the same thing: someone to love.

[Enrique]

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Girls love this kind of intimacy. Most guys won't do this sort of thing (brush the hair out of your face) because it's a very intimate move. It shows a girl that a guy is really interested and if the girl doesn't feel the same way back it's awkward. However, if the girl feels the same attraction then it's a very great move.

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Katy, you're always saying things like "guys don't do this or feel that" and I don't like it! First, it just ain't true. Guys love intimacy as much as girls. And if you've found that not to be the case, you're just hanging around the wrong guys! We want that special someone, that wondrous connection, just as much as you do. We want to be able to laugh and talk and "banter" back and forth, too.

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I have to agree with Dom here (except for the "you are always saying", since I don't exactly remember if you do). But I mean that I agree that many guys also look for intimacy. Actually, brushing the hair is not that risky a move, since I can't imagine a girl moving her arm to prevent you from touching her hair. Oh, actually, it happened to me once, and it felt awful. Oh well, good thing I forgot about it the next time I liked a girl enough to want to brush her hair of her face (it was great the next time).

[SoloAJ]

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That doesn't mean that people enjoying it superficially are wrong. They just are working at a different layer.

I don't know why I'm saying this really, it's just it struck me somewhat after seeing BSR and BSS with my wife.

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DB, I agree with you. But it also sort of points on the sort of thing that katy and I are talking about. We both get the sense the the interaction between Jesse and Celine are really somewhat rare in our lives, or at least more sparse than we'd like. I think that the people who watch this movie superficially (or: not like Loungers) are obviously not going to be the type of people who enjoy the dialogues that Jesse/Celine have and that katy and I am referring to missing at times.

I also think it is interesting that I always just assumed that, for me, it was a surrounding age group thing. I assumed it would get better maybe as I got older. Katy's posts have made me rethink that assumption.

Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with simply enjoying it on a superficial level. However, that's a pretty good indicator--I think?--that the person probably doesn't..."get it" the way us Loungers do. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. It's just sort of....an association I make.

[SoloAJ]

Enrique and Dom,

I disagree with your assessments on some level. I certainly don't think most guys are going to pursue that intimacy even to the paltry level of brushing hair back from her face. Most of the guys I know are still relatively terrified of that intimacy and/or don't even want it yet. Obviously, this can be partly attributed to age.

But Dom, don't you know a lot of guys your age that are probably the same way? Some guys are just too scared to make themselves vulnerable to any degree, that they wouldn't offer some intimate sort of gesture, yes?

PS Dom, obviously I'm going to agree with katy's point. It makes guys like you and me rarer and therefore more awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS Enrique, I'm jealous of your IHOP dates. My friends definitely would get bored and want to go get some booze after 5 minutes.

[Dominic]

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Enrique and Dom,

I disagree with your assessments on some level. I certainly don't think most guys are going to pursue that intimacy even to the paltry level of brushing hair back from her face. Most of the guys I know are still relatively terrified of that intimacy and/or don't even want it yet. Obviously, this can be partly attributed to age.

But Dom, don't you know a lot of guys your age that are probably the same way? Some guys are just too scared to make themselves vulnerable to any degree, that they wouldn't offer some intimate sort of gesture, yes?

PS Dom, obviously I'm going to agree with katy's point. It makes guys like you and me rarer and therefore more awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Of course there are some guys that are scared of intimacy. My point is I don't think they are any more numerous than scared girls!

In my experience, it's been the girls who have shied away from true intimacy, not me. I don't know, they just can't grasp the import of my toe-nail clippings collection, I guess.

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[SoloAJ]

katy,

You're fascinating to me. It seems like every other post I find out something that you want from life, relationship, friendship, etc. And then the other posts are about how you can't have them and it pains you. You want a guy with certain traits. One isn't around. So it feels like this almost..giving up sometimes. :-/ Not every post is like that, but it's interesting, nonetheless.

It reminds me of someone who has all of these wonderful hopes and dreams but has already accepted that they can't have it (and I see this sort of thing in your posts about "Here's my idea, but I'm too afraid to start the thread."

This may seem offtopic of some sort, but I think it has the themes of the movie in mind. I feel like already, after one set of replies from everyone, that my responses have transcended the movie itself. Another reason I love BS.

Back onto the movie, I like your views on the intimacy you feel in the movie. It is amazing just how much intimacy and "tension" drips in the two movies. The booth scene. The almost touching each others hair/head. Another favorite of mine is when they're on the boat in Sunset and Jesse sort of walks away from her and says "God, why weren't you there?" and her reaction is just amazing to me. It's like she knew the issue would come back up, and when it finally did...I could almost feel her shoulders slump with despair internally.

[diebitter]

and so you know, my wife isn't a superficialist with all films. She thinks Black Narcissus is a great movie for example - no real superficialist would ever say that.

In fact I was sorta surprised she didn't connect with the material more. There's some sections where Jessie is talking on the boat that sounds like our marriage has been at points along the way, and I was a little uncomfortable about it, but she didn't seem to react to it, or comment on it in any way (which was a relief).

[SoloAJ]

Yeah, I didn't want to imply your wife was a superficial bum, obviously. I was trying to get my point across without having you think I was some ungrateful and unruly stupid youth. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]