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#1
03-14-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
Only gays do the same thing here every time regardless of the board, villain, game texture etc. I will raise this more often than not except against a nit, but it has to be on a board that a) it is likely you are raising with a legit hand and b) they are donking with a range that is folding more often than not.
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#2
03-14-2007, 11:15 PM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
I can't believe everyone likes raising. I think it's so far and away fold.
People donking out like that are either looking to bet/3bet, or they're a drooler with a decent hand that probably can't fold to a raise anyways. Either way they have *something*, and most of the time we have nothing with VERY questionable FE. Grunch - we need to clarify, though. Do opponents realize what is going on? Can they identify our tendancies? If avoiding exploitation is part of the equation, it changes the discussion. I'm assuming we're intentionally leaving this stuff out for the sake of discussion.
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#3
03-15-2007, 10:45 AM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
If I had to choose 100 % of one or the other, with no exemptions, I'd prefer to always raise. Assuming I was playing in a game where players had at least some memory, I might also choose to *slightly* tighten up my preflop raising standards so that I didn't find myself raising junk as often on the flop.
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#4
03-15-2007, 10:52 AM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
Grunch,
Everyone is getting a bit off track here, I believe. It is VERY obvious that doing any action 100% is going to be sub-optimal. It is also obvious that if we had to make a decision to do something 100% of the time, we would need more information (villain's tendancies, our opening range, stack sizes, etc). I don't think that your point is to dive into all of this. My guess is that you have thought about this particular set of circumstances and have an example that may add some clarity to the play in general. I would just like to see what you have in store for us before this goes too far off track. All that said, I raise more often than I fold here, so I am supposed to say raise. Please tell me why its wrong! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] <3 Grunch theory posts
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#5
03-15-2007, 11:06 AM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
If it has to be one choice every single time it regardless of everything, I'm thinking the right choice is to raise because....
1) Some of those times we could have a good hand or even a monster 2) Some of those times we could have any number of outs to improve 3) Some of those times we can just take down the pot with our raise 4) Some of those times (if we are allowed to actually think now on the turn) we can take it down with a dbl barrel 5) Some of those times we can just shut down after the flop call. I dont see how folding every single time, regardless of what we have (even the good hands) can ever be a winning play. If the players catch on to what I'm doing, and I HAVE to stick to this strategy I'm just gonna switch tables and try my luck somewhere else.
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#6
03-15-2007, 10:55 AM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
This is too oversimplified. However I would always raise.
What if there was an option c) call? If we always had to take the same action I'd much prefer to play out the turn and river with position than I would always raise or fold.
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#7
03-15-2007, 11:05 AM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
Lol - I read this post yesterday, have been thinking about it all day and OP still hasbt divulged his mysterious thoughts....
That said I still cannot see how, if we have to do something every single time, there is any other option apart from raise as it is the onyl way we ever win the pot. Is this question to be viewed in a vacuum??? I.e entirely theoretical... i.e Donk is just a "poker player" without any kind of raiting (nit, tag, lag blah blah) - thats how I viewed it, but something still tells me the answer is some how fold, which is annoying because it means im too stupid to work it out.
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#10
03-15-2007, 11:13 AM
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Re: Apathy style theory question - raise or fold to donkbet?
My 25nl/50nl answer is turbofold. So many times they just overcall the raise. If nothing else this is just UBER tilt inducing.
Example hand: You have mid pair decent kicker. Villain donks, you raise, he overcalls, and goes LALALA CHECK-CALL CHECK-CALL ALL THE WAY HOME with tpnk. I would only raise here if I was doing so for value, and only if I would feel pretty okay with committing to the hand.
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