Australian Taxes?

[kidpokeher]

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All of this begs the obvious question: Is it difficult to get Australian Citizenship? Anybody know how long the process takes?

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www.immi.gov.au has the answer to your question.

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I wish it did. I just spent the last hour reading this site. In short it says you need to be a resident for four years before applying and you need to take a test. I couldn't find anything about what it takes to migrate and become a resident.

[BruceN]

Ok. lets confirm the real facts here. My credentials are an Australian CPA and I work in taxation public practice.

The advice from the two accountants was poor, at least to the extent that they should have made confirmation of the facts eloquently expressed by the other poster concerning the "business test".

At this point, looking at the available facts and cases, poker would not be considered a business. There is a very good reason for this, and that is under Australian Taxation Law if your enterprise/activity is considered a business, its turnover is more than 20k a year, and you lose money, it can be deducted against other sources of income.

The ATO would hate to suddenly open the door to every gambler donking 20 k plus at the 10/20 in the Crown poker room to be claiming a tax deduction after saying they were a business. Therefore gambling Income has overwhelmingly been considered "windfall gain" under Australian tax law and there has been a general reluctance to push the boundaries further after the famous horse racing case.

The best equivalent situation Im aware of is a prominent Australian black jack card counter who could be considered very systemised in approach has investigated the same issue thoroughly and come to the same conclusion. He may have received a private ruling from the ATO but due to privacy issues I couldnt get this confirmed.

Now a word of caution, this doesnt mean that the ATO wouldnt at some time in the future want to test the boundaries of the case law in regards to the gambling/business definition, my advice is if comfort is needed you could get your accountant to prepare a private ruling application.



I would be most interested to hear the outcome.

regards

Bruce

[Josem]

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I couldn't find anything about what it takes to migrate and become a resident.


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[Poker CPA]

Not taxable - very EZ. Bruce is correct. Keep working for your dad, you're learning the business from the ground up, without pay. You just happen to be a good poker player.

Bruce, your undergrad studies were from ?????

[BruceN]

Actually, studies were a bit convoluted. My original degree was a BA from the University of Adelaide then after commencing my working career I completed part time a "Graduate Conversion course in accounting" from the University of Tas at Launceston . However , I completed 5 units doing a B.Ec at Adelaide, and switched to the Tasmanian course which was by correspondence, receiving status for most of the subjects completed.

Have worked in public practice for the past 16 years.

regards

Bruce

[kidpokeher]

Yes, I was there. The problem is from that point it appears they're looking for specific occupations and, not surprisingly, poker players aren't on the list.

Why can't you be more like the U.S. where anyone can come regardless of skills, health, work history or criminal background? I'm mean, c'mon you're even asking us to know how to speak English.

[Josem]

to avoid hijacking this thread into a discussion of Australian migration policy, i've answered the question about migration in the travel forum here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...D=#Post11366773

[DanJ.]

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Not taxable - very EZ. Bruce is correct. Keep working for your dad, you're learning the business from the ground up, without pay. You just happen to be a good poker player.

Bruce, your undergrad studies were from ?????

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no, i no longer work for my dad, i moved out of home a while ago and now all i do for money is play poker.

[DanJ.]

ok, just got home from accountant. I actually showed him this thread, he didnt read all of it but read my posts and BruceN's post...

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The ATO would hate to suddenly open the door to every gambler donking 20 k plus at the 10/20 in the Crown poker room to be claiming a tax deduction after saying they were a business. Therefore gambling Income has overwhelmingly been considered "windfall gain" under Australian tax law and there has been a general reluctance to push the boundaries further after the famous horse racing case.

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With this, he said that he agreed with it, but in my case im not losing money im winning and i dont have any other way of proving it was from anything apart from poker, therefore id have to pay tax

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my advice is if comfort is needed you could get your accountant to prepare a private ruling application.



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and the accountant said if i realy wanted to i could do that, but all it does is raise a flag on my case and it could change in the future. like, my circumstances could change in the future and it could just [censored] me up even worse.

[fitnessfreak]

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The ATO would hate to suddenly open the door to every gambler donking 20 k plus at the 10/20 in the Crown poker room to be claiming a tax deduction after saying they were a business. Therefore gambling Income has overwhelmingly been considered "windfall gain" under Australian tax law and there has been a general reluctance to push the boundaries further after the famous horse racing case.

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With this, he said that he agreed with it, but in my case im not losing money im winning and i dont have any other way of proving it was from anything apart from poker, therefore id have to pay tax

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whilst i still am very confident that poker winnings are not taxable in australia, i did just think of a way to possibly ease your mind in this respect. just sign into party blackjack and play some hands there. then you have two different "games" you are playing, one of which they arent going to want to go near.

you also have to remember that if the ATO did come after you then they would have to be able to prove the winnings that you made came from poker alone. they are going to have a hell of a time trying to get all of the records from party poker to put a timeline in showing that you were systematically profiting from poker.

im not an accountant but i did study income tax law at the university of western australia, and because at the time i was just getting into playing home games w friends, i decided to ask my lecturer about it. i was assured that poker winnings would be very unlikely to be considered taxable income. it is pretty clear from the case law about gambling as a business in relation to horse racing that pooker was not really part of the consideration, and i fail to see how a poker player's winnings could be taxable pursuant to the decisions outlined in those cases.

as i said in another thread on this issue, if it becomes more of a serious issue i will look into it further. i have a couple of friends who specialise in taxation law who i can call on if it comes down to it but for now im not worried about it at all and i dont think you should be either.

oh yeah Dan, if you find any of this info useful or comforting you can feel free to softplay me at the tables for a week as a sign of appreciation! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]