Australian Taxes?

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
All of this begs the obvious question: Is it difficult to get Australian Citizenship? Anybody know how long the process takes?

[/ QUOTE ]

www.immi.gov.au has the answer to your question.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
What if you don't have another job?

I am currently living outside of australia living off poker and am wondering if I can just transfer money from a third party online account (not specifically associtated to poker) to my aussie account and if this can be considered taxable money...

[/ QUOTE ]

A thread with excellent links to info on this is at http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...;Main=10059146

[DanJ.]

Ok i have recently seen 2 accountants and asked them what i should be doing about tax and both of them said that i am going to have to pay tax because poker is what i do for a living.

so i was like, well i know about 10 ppl in australia who havnt paid any $ in tax why havnt they been caught? and the accountants were like "theyre just lucky, theyll get caught eventually"...so i was kinda like uhhh ok...and then basically i was told that if i get 'caught' im gonna hve to pay a [censored] of penalties.

So...my questions are, if my accountants are saying i have to pay tax but there are a bunch of ppl in australia who havent paid a cent for like 5 years like wtf is going on here?

what should i do about cashing money out? i make about $250kUSD/year and have been cashing out through bankwire.

thx for help.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok i have recently seen 2 accountants and asked them what i should be doing about tax and both of them said that i am going to have to pay tax because poker is what i do for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

i continue to think this is right.

i suspect that most fulltime players would fall afoul (is that a word) of the six tests laid down by the courts.

[ QUOTE ]

So...my questions are, if my accountants are saying i have to pay tax but there are a bunch of ppl in australia who havent paid a cent for like 5 years like wtf is going on here?

[/ QUOTE ]
there are a bunch of people who are not paying the tax they are supposed to pay - either intentionally or unintentionally.

in their defence, it seems unclear to me.

[ QUOTE ]
what should i do about cashing money out? i make about $250kUSD/year and have been cashing out through bankwire.

thx for help.

[/ QUOTE ]
your tax obligations are not affected by your method of cashout. it doesn't matter how the money is credited to your account, if you earn it as taxable income, you must pay tax on it.


glenn wheatley is going to jail for trying to evade tax using internatinoal bank accounts.

[DanJ.]

[censored] this [censored], im leaving the country.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored] this [censored], im leaving the country.

[/ QUOTE ]

you will obviously still have a tax liability for 06/07, and depending on your departure, you may have a liability for 07/08.


your accoutnant can inform you of the details.

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok i have recently seen 2 accountants and asked them what i should be doing about tax and both of them said that i am going to have to pay tax because poker is what i do for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not an accountant, but these accountants don't know what they're talking about. Even if gambling is your sole source of income, provided it's not run as a business, you are exempt from tax. The courts have been extremely reluctant to classify gambling as business, see here for example:

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?find=(("gambling"))&docid=ITR/IT2655/NAT/ATO/00001

There's also the matter of proof - the ATO aren't going to subpoena records from another country to see when and how much you played. It's not how they work.

To be on the safe side, I'd do everything possible to make it seem like a hobby. Regular weekly/monthly withdrawals are probably a bad idea although I still think you'd be in there clear.

Anyway, there's a lot of money involved so get yourself some more opinions. I doubt there are any gambling specific accountants in Australia but if you get a good accountant and stress your point, they'll probably do the research to give you a definitive answer instead of giving a half arsed reply.

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
i suspect that most fulltime players would fall afoul (is that a word) of the six tests laid down by the courts.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have a link? The only case law I can find seems to suggest poker players are in the clear.

edit: never mind, I assume you're referring to this?: http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?ra...mp;pn=ALL:::ALL

However, I don't see how it applies to poker. Some of the big points are inside information, owning a share of the greyhound, and laying bets on behalf of others. I'd suggest that given previous high court rulings, these are the things that make it "businesslike".

[Josem]

key links:
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/print.h...%2FATO%2F00001

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?ra...amp;pn=ALL:::CC


that second link, a case involving these sorts of issues, includes the following:

[ QUOTE ]
The principal criteria by which questions of the present sort appear to have been judged are the following:

1. whether the betting is conducted in a systematic, organised and ``businesslike'' way;
2. its scale: i.e. the size of the wins and losses;
3. whether the betting is related to, or part of, other activities of a businesslike character, e.g. breeding horses;
4. whether the bettor appears to engage in his activity principally for profit or principally for pleasure;
5. whether the form of betting chosen is likely to reward skill and judgment or depends purely on chance;
6. whether the gambling activity in question is of a kind which is ordinarily thought of as a hobby or pastime.


[/ QUOTE ]


so, if you clear each of those tests, you are probably not gambling as a business.

I suspect that most fulltime players will:

1) bet systematically (obviously)
2) bet large enough for it to be considered significant
3) probably clear this one
4) doing it for profit
5) likely to reward skill and judgement
6) dunno.


4/6 is a fail, methinks. though i'm no lawyer, and certainly no judge - where this issue will eventually be decided.

[kidpokeher]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored] this [censored], im leaving the country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, come to the U.S. Things are so much better here. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]