JJ set on flush board.

[Kimpan]

I feel like I should have just c/c the river here.

PartyPoker $100 NL Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(5 handed)</font> HandRecorder v0.9b

Stacks &amp; Stats
BB ($97)
CO ($94.03) (42/14/1.37/30) (1344h)
BU ($71.35)
SB ($30.46)
Hero ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#FF0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, CO calls $4, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($9.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets $6.50</font>, CO calls $6.50.

Turn: ($22.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets $15</font>, CO calls $15.

River: ($52.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets $30.50</font>, <font color="#FF0000">CO raises to $68.53 (all-in)</font>, Hero...

[wulfpacker21]

more on the turn def. make it 18-19 and you could make it a lil more on the flop as well

[Kimpan]

yeah, I get lazy with the bet pot script. Should def. work this out of my game.

[King_S]

My play:

Bet the pot on the flop.

Bet less on Turn(~$10)

Check, &lt;insert your decision based upon read of player&gt; to his likely River bet.

My critique:

River bet is a spew. Your 2/3 pot-sized bet on the Turn indicates to me that you're committed. By playing this hand poorly on the Turn, then terribly on the River, you've decided to put all of your chips in the middle with negative expectation.

Summary
-Pot the Flop
-1/2 pot-sized bet Turn
-check/call OR fold the River

[King_S]

[ QUOTE ]
more on the turn def. make it 18-19 and you could make it a lil more on the flop as well

[/ QUOTE ]

Why bet more on the Turn? The 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] completes the straight and flush draws. I like a small bet on the Turn, followed by a tough call/fold(it depends) on the Turn, and a check, then fold/call(it depends) line on the River.

[ChromePony]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
more on the turn def. make it 18-19 and you could make it a lil more on the flop as well

[/ QUOTE ]

Why bet more on the Turn? The 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] completes the straight and flush draws. I like a small bet on the Turn, followed by a tough call/fold(it depends) on the Turn, and a check, then fold/call(it depends) line on the River.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting that small on the turn allows a super cheap draw for a lone club or different straight draw, it also looks like a fishy blocking bet and allows you to get bluffed (I'm assuming you're advocating a fold to a raise?)

Talking about folding here at all seems waaay too nitty for me, people floats flops with a lot of stuff not just flush draws, I think you're giving him an awful lot of credit here. Check call on the river could be ok, but he's not that deep and I'm not hating getting it in all that much.

I would bet 7 or 8 on the flop and 18 on that turn calling a raise AI. River is more player dependent, bet/call or check/call, but no folding.

[King_S]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
more on the turn def. make it 18-19 and you could make it a lil more on the flop as well

[/ QUOTE ]

Why bet more on the Turn? The 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] completes the straight and flush draws. I like a small bet on the Turn, followed by a tough call/fold(it depends) on the Turn, and a check, then fold/call(it depends) line on the River.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting that small on the turn allows a super cheap draw for a lone club or different straight draw, it also looks like a fishy blocking bet and allows you to get bluffed (I'm assuming you're advocating a fold to a raise?)

Talking about folding here at all seems waaay too nitty for me, people floats flops with a lot of stuff not just flush draws, I think you're giving him an awful lot of credit here. Check call on the river could be ok, but he's not that deep and I'm not hating getting it in all that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the opponent raises all-in on the turn to the 1/2 pot-sized bet, let's consider the consequences.

hero has 10 outs(9 to pair the cards on board besides J + 1 J). Assuming his outs are clean, which we can do because of the educated guess that opponent has flush or straight, he's getting around 3.3-1. He's committed $4 pre-flop + $8.5 flop + $10 turn = $22.5. total pot(115) = $45(pot) + $70(opponent's stack). 115-45 = 2.6-1

an obvious fold.

now, the hero needs to decide if his man has a flush or a straight, in which case he should fold the Turn.

[ChromePony]

Well obviously if we can put him 100% on a flush or a straight it becomes a numbers game and the decision is just up to the odds. I'm just saying that a small bet could provoke a bluff a lot more often and make the decision trickier, as well as giving cheap odds to a drawer. The turn completes one straight (T9) and the flush and I think his calling range is a lot wider than that. Again, depends a lot on the opponent and if he's capable of bluffing or calling down with a worse hand.

[dragonystic]

pot pot shove.

as played, call. this morons range is plenty wide even with the three clubs on the board.