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  #1  
Old 11-27-2007, 12:25 AM
mikeca mikeca is offline
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Default B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

This is a Friday night B&M 3/6 game, but a little tighter than usual.

The main villain in this hand is a generally loose passive idiot. He seems relatively inexperienced at least with live poker. He is playing about 2/3 of his hands preflop, and I can never remember him raising preflop or post. He called down with Jx on a KQJ flop and lost to a straight. He went all in with 75s on a flop of AK6 with one of his suite, and lost. He re-bought after this.

I am on the button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Some folds, EP limps, more folds, villain limps in hijack, CO limps, I limp, SB fold, BB checks.

Flop, 5 players, 4 SB (after rake) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checked to villain who bets, CO calls, I raise, BB folds, EP calls 2 cold, villain 3 bets, CO calls 2 more, I cap, EP calls 2 more, villain and CO call.

After the 3 bet, I put the villain on a flopped straight. He is not the kind of player that raises on a flush draw. 86 or 63 seem right in his range, especially if they are suited. Of course it is possible he has a set too with 44 or 77. I capped this without really thinking. Given my read I'm not sure why. If he does have the straight, at least I have outs. I’m guessing the EP and CO are on flush or straight draws.

Turn, 4 players 12 BB [7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

EP checks, villain bets, CO calls, I raise, EP folds, villain 3 bets, CO calls 2 more, I cap, villain and CO call.

I am now putting the villain on 86, 63, 77 or 44. The straight hands seem much more likely than the pocked pairs that have me beat. CO is probably on a flush or straight draw. Given that the CO is probably drawing dead, I see nothing wrong with capping here.

Turn, 3 players 24 BB [7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villain bets, CO folds, I raise, villain 3 bets, I 4 bet, villain 5 bets (no cap now because it is heads up), I call.

Given that the villain seems like an idiot, did I give too much action here? Should I have kept raising on the river?
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:15 AM
Bob T. Bob T. is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

Maybe I stop one raise earlier than you did. He could have 77 or 44. He might also have AA. or he might not realize that his straight is not good when the board pairs.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:21 AM
Lethe Lethe is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

Preflop, Flop, Turn: Good

River: I definitely don't think you should keep raising on the river, so I guess the question is whether to 4bet or not. If he is as passive as you say he is though, I'd probably just call the 3bet.
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:37 AM
Scarmiglio Scarmiglio is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

I think you gave the right amount of action on all streets. As villain plays all of his hands, he could also have a worse full house such as 74 or 54, along with the possible flopped straight hands. The only reasonable hands he could hold that beat you on the river are pocket 77 & 44, so I think the 4-bet call a 5-bet is fine. Just calling the 3-bet isn't terrible, but against players this loose and inexperienced, the 4-bet line is fine.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:14 AM
SNOWBALL SNOWBALL is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

Keep raising.

If he rly is inexperienced with live poker, he will think thusly "my hand is GREAT!" and just jam

This may be the strongest hand he has ever held before, and he can't see past his own cards. Him being passive just means he doesn't semi bluff, or bet for value enough with medium hands, because his experience of getting raised by 2 pair or a flush or w/e is just too painful.

He probably has relatively few experiences with monster vs. monster confrontations, and so he'll just jam jam jam with a worse fullhouse or a straight here.
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:27 PM
Grease Grease is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

This hand is somewhat confusing (LP's love to slowplay, so I'm at a loss of how to see this).

Does he slowplay monsters? If he habitually slowplays sets, then I like you raising the river. If not, then I just call. I think that the real question is what to do on the river, because there is no way you can do anything other than cap the turn.

FWIW, I really like you analyzing his hand range as the action continues. I think on the river you're looking at 45, 74, 44, 77 or 68. Since you describe him as passive, I would just call unless you've seen him get out of line/not realize the board has paired and he no longer has the mortal nuts. Although, if he's somewhat inexperienced, I might pop him one more time and if he 3-bangs, just call. I really hate advocating calling the river, but against someone who has been barelling the whole time and is usually passive, I think you might spew if you go any more.

I think 4-betting is spew regardless, though.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:37 PM
PokrLikeItsProse PokrLikeItsProse is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

[ QUOTE ]
Keep raising.


[/ QUOTE ]

When would you stop?
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:59 PM
mikeca mikeca is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

In this case the villain had the straight with 86. Either he was so excited about flopping a straight that he failed to notice that the board paired on the turn or he was so inexperienced that he didn't understand what a paired board meant.

These kind of river raising situations are rare, but most times I find that I am the one that just calls and then I have the best hand. Afterwards I wonder whether I'm just seeing monsters under the bed.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:12 PM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: B&M 3/6 flopped set, turn FH, too much action?

You can cap the flop for value, the same way you'd cap the flop for value with a flush draw if you are 4-way. Except in this case you have the bonus of possibly actually being ahead.

These kinds of "when do I stop on the river" questions are intellectually interesting, but in real life they so often turn out to be 50/50 decisions (which I believe this one is) that I really don't think it matters to our EV if we go one bet less or one bet more.

You can easily create some argument that has you ahead 50% of the time here. And behind 50% of the time. Or more or less, as you prefer :-)
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