$16 stupid fold on scary board ?

veeRtje · #1 10-25-2007, 12:28 AM

Have been playing a very succelfull session tonight (has been a while). In general I feel i'm a very competent player with a 20% ROI.

I think my biggest edge is that i'm able to fold big hands on scary flops but this hand was tricky for me. I look like an idiot after u see this but wanted to post it anyway.
Exactly how bad is this fold?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

CO (t1480)
Button (t1620)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1420)
UTG (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t60, 1 fold, MP2 calls t60, 1 fold, CO calls t60, 3 folds.

Flop: (t210) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t200, MP2 calls t200, CO calls t200.

Turn: (t810) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t200, CO calls t200, Hero folds.

River: (t1210) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets t240, CO calls t240.

Final Pot: t1690

IFoldPktOnes · #2 10-25-2007, 01:23 AM

This board isn't really all that scary, there shouldn't be too many flushes in your opponents ranges with all those high spades out. There are so many weak hands they could hold, AJ, AT, KsQx, QxTs, Ts9x, etc. You are also drawing to the best hand, while being offered good odds.

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly how bad is this fold?

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I would estimate you lost between 50c and $3 by folding the turn.

vers · #3 10-25-2007, 01:59 AM

I limp pre... Turn I never fold when I improve. I would still bet the turn. Just b/c the fd got there doesn't mean someone was it...

20 ROI at what stakes?

drzen · #4 10-25-2007, 02:08 AM

On a scale of one to ten, it's [censored] awful.

Play some limit. You'll learn that they don't always have the flush.

veeRtje · #5 10-25-2007, 12:34 PM

yeah I know it was stupid, but i always get afraid they hit the flush/stright.....

20% at the $16s

kylephilly · #6 10-25-2007, 01:05 PM

I don't fold this ever.

Traveller99 · #7 10-25-2007, 01:09 PM

I don't think I would have folded there but since K-10 also made the straight (which is mostly possible if one or more of your callers was a donkey), it was worrisome.

You also needed to factor in that you could offset the flush and straight risks with the 4 outer to hit a full house and the implied odds that if your FH came in a flush or straight would get stacked by you. That, in combination with the reasonable chance that no flush or straight made it means that you should have called the turn.

Of course, if you don't hit the FH, then the river leaves you the out of position problem decision between checking again and trying a bluff blocker lead bet, and then deciding whether to fold to a re-raise (since most good players would flat call without the flush, especially on-line where they can't read your physical tells) ... but you didn't even arrive at that problem. Chances are I would not fold anywhere in that hand, maybe even after a river reraise, unless I really knew something about my opponent. Sometimes its good to just commit to really good hands (top 2 or better) when you have insufficient evidence that you're beaten.

bighomeytim · #8 10-25-2007, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I limp pre... Turn I never fold when I improve. I would still bet the turn. Just b/c the fd got there doesn't mean someone was it...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll never understand a limp with AQ. Aren't you either setting yourself up for winning a small pot or losing a huge one by letting others in? Please let me know the theory behind this because I think limping AQ or AJ is one of the worst habbits that a lot of players have.