preflop spot

[Scary_Tiger]

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It seems to be a 4 bet cap which makes this an easy call.

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doesn't the fact that it is indeed a 4bet cap make it much more likely that the reason CO simply coldcalled is because he CAN'T cap?

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The fact that it is a 4bet cap makes it an easy call because there isn't another option...

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what do you think CO has?

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Unless you tell me more than pro who has been on TV and such I'm going to assume a retardedly large range. Is this guy Eskimo Clark or is he David Grey?

[PokerBob]

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It seems to be a 4 bet cap which makes this an easy call.

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doesn't the fact that it is indeed a 4bet cap make it much more likely that the reason CO simply coldcalled is because he CAN'T cap?

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The fact that it is a 4bet cap makes it an easy call because there isn't another option...

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what do you think CO has?

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Unless you tell me more than pro who has been on TV and such I'm going to assume a retardedly large range. Is this guy Eskimo Clark or is he David Grey?

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i am not of the opinion that he is an idiot. he is a live limit pro, and has been for some time.

[bugstud]

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It seems to be a 4 bet cap which makes this an easy call.

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doesn't the fact that it is indeed a 4bet cap make it much more likely that the reason CO simply coldcalled is because he CAN'T cap?

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The fact that it is a 4bet cap makes it an easy call because there isn't another option...

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what do you think CO has?

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Unless you tell me more than pro who has been on TV and such I'm going to assume a retardedly large range. Is this guy Eskimo Clark or is he David Grey?

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i am not of the opinion that he is an idiot. he is a live limit pro, and has been for some time.

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even if he doesn't suck, he's in a weird spot with most pairs and AQs and whatnot. We are at commerce, we are here to make gamboooooool. If you wanna step into his mind for moment, we have superfish on megatilt to our right. So I think his range should be wider than you're implying?

[PokerBob]

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It seems to be a 4 bet cap which makes this an easy call.

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doesn't the fact that it is indeed a 4bet cap make it much more likely that the reason CO simply coldcalled is because he CAN'T cap?

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The fact that it is a 4bet cap makes it an easy call because there isn't another option...

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what do you think CO has?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you tell me more than pro who has been on TV and such I'm going to assume a retardedly large range. Is this guy Eskimo Clark or is he David Grey?

[/ QUOTE ]

i am not of the opinion that he is an idiot. he is a live limit pro, and has been for some time.

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even if he doesn't suck, he's in a weird spot with most pairs and AQs and whatnot. We are at commerce, we are here to make gamboooooool. If you wanna step into his mind for moment, we have superfish on megatilt to our right. So I think his range should be wider than you're implying?

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i dunno if it should. granted, the 3 original raisers are dumdums, but dumdums wake up with big hands too.

[AragornX151]

I'd be inclined to fold this OOP. Just because the players aren't great (or even average) doesn't mean they can't have the goods here, at least 1-2 of them, and you're basically playing for set value (seems way too optimistic to think you're against TT and several big pairs).

I would possibly call this on the button (and even then, probably fold to a cap, unless every hand has been getting capped), but here, I can't imagine how it's -EV to just fold with almost nothing invested in the pot and in the worst possible position. Almost no flops will be that exciting to you, aside from like J74.

If CO is good, he is not cold-calling four with crap. He seems likely to me to have QQ-AA or AK, or even the other two jacks...

[GreywolfNYC]

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You realize that unless everyone in the hand is full of crap, you are likely behind a bigger pair or will have to dodge at least two overcards. Furthermore, I assume that even if the flop is all rags, it will still be expensive to get through the flop and possilbe the turn, when all the while you may be drawing to two outs.

In fact, I'm curious as to how much different the decision making process would be for you if you held 88 instead?

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I think you'd play JJ in this spot exactly the same way you'd play 88.

[AragornX151]

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I think you'd play JJ in this spot exactly the same way you'd play 88.

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I almost included this in my post, but JJ has the advantage of being ahead of 99-TT, which are certainly in the range of everyone here except maybe the CO if he's at all good. Still, they are very close in value.

[HOWMANY]

If there's any realistic chance BB will call 3 more I wouldn't even bother thinking before putting my money into the pot. If BB is likely going to fold I think about 5 seconds before calling.

Honestly I guess you can fold here but you have JJ with three retards raising and a guaranteed 5 way pot. Folding is boring. Sorta depends which "pro" we are talking about here too. A few random people I've noticed on TV but don't know the name of that I have played with seem to enjoy going on raging monkey tilt and hopping into spots like this with A2s. I myself am not a professional poker player and have not been on TV so I'm unable to execute such a play.

[mike l.]

this is a very standard fold. youre way too likely to be against a bigger pair, and it's not worth the immediate call of 3.5 bets cold even though you have great implied odds should you flop a set.

[Victor]

i folded jj in a similar spot. i was against tt, ajs, and ako and woulda flopped a set.