The Engineer is yellow...

[va1halla]

That yellow is hard on the eyes, please change it to blue.

[BluffTHIS!]

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I can understand how he does not wish to start each post with a disclaimer that the post is not an official statement of the PPA.

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Although you might understand why he wouldn't want to have such a disclaimer in each post, would you also understand why/if he refused to? That is, why giving up posting here because of dislike of the disclaimer was more important than just considering it the price of working for the cause? All he has to do is tap a preprogrammed function key to add it.

[Legislurker]

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I hope the Engineer doesn't get hung up on this and even if he disagrees with the demand, views it as worth complying with in order to help continue advance the work of the PPA as he has so ably done in this forum.

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Agreed.



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Now I have something to say to the rest of you professing outrage. You are the ones who by your refusal to take seriously important problems with the PPA (which admittedly are getting better though after two years of misteps and failure) who are hurting the cause we have.

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Who really is "we."

You seem to understand that 2+2 has the right of ownership of this forum, but the people who created the PPA do not have the same?

To a very large degree there have been and are problems and an attitude of "keeping the children" in the dark and spoon feding them platitudes.

But at some point we are all going to have to trust at some point! The forces that "control" the PPA are going to have to trust the general poker community to step up when asked. The general poker community is going to have to push the PPA for concrete meaningful actions to be followed. The PPA is also going to have to do a better job explaining and motivating the general community to action.

In the end realistically it is the "forces" that control the PPA if for neferious ends who risk the most, this includes 2+2 concerns and its motives. Because in the end the membership will "control" the PPA.

Fighting for "control" now because the PPA might be useful "controling" in the future is a loosing game. If it is really worth controling it will be uncontrolable.

This fight now is both worthless but potentially ends this game in Safe and Secure's favor.

I'm pretty sure the IGC, the PPA, 2+2 LLC, and the general poker community do not want that but that is where we are going.


D$D

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"We" are the people who want to act in concert for poker's best interests. We're not willing to say the PPA acts for poker just because it says it does. Im not marketing it to friends or acquaintances as such either until what Bluff and Mason wants comes to pass, or is agreed to be acted on. I don't care how embarassing or industry heavy the finances are now. Come clean, show it, open it up to democratic processes. Im happy to work with it, and to give some money, but in no way will I vouch for it as representing the interests of players. The enemy of my enemby is my friend.
Neutral. However you want to say it. "We" are still waiting to make an "Us".

[JPFisher55]

I guess TE thinks that such a disclaimer would not be adequate. So I do not know. IMO either side could comply with the other side because it is not that big a deal. But I do not sit in Mason's or TE's shoes.

[mr.giggles]

dude did theenginer just pretty much quit posting on 2+2? I just read the other thread and got that impression, if he did quite IM gonna be pissed man.

[1p0kerboy]

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That yellow is hard on the eyes, please change it to blue.

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I think blue is reserved for authors.

[mr.giggles]

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That yellow is hard on the eyes, please change it to blue.

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I think blue is reserved for authors.

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he should get purple that would be so kool

[BluffTHIS!]

Orange is an available color and easier on the eyes than yellow.

[Skallagrim]

First of all welcome back BluffTHIS. I have missed your point of view, even when I disagree with it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] .

This looks like an acceptable compromise, given the situation, so I wont make a long comment.

But as Bluff has done a better job of presenting Mason's point of view than Mason, let me take a brief stab at TE's side: TE started, here and on a few other boards, telling the plain 'ole players just what they could do to help, and specifically how they could do it. Both his assistance to, and motivation of, the "masses" were invaluable to the cause of legal poker. Eventually he did most of his work here on 2+2 because, to 2+2's credit, here is where the action (readership) is. Soon he became both a part of the action and a partial cause of it. Eventually his efforts were so noticeable that the PPA asked him to join up by becoming a member of the board. TE took the position only because he thought it would help achieve even more for the cause of legal poker. Part of that help was to take the issues 2+2 management and posters have, and try and get the PPA to address them. He really wanted to bridge the gap, and actively worked to do so.

Is it any surprise that he feels a bit let down that as a reward for all his efforts his 2+2 posts can no longer be his, but now must be the PPA's, to one degree or another?

Of course MM (and Bluff) have legitimate points (I just dont think they are IMPORTANT legitimate points, at least not now). So to them, letting TE continue on as before appears to imply that they have already had their issues addressed. As much as I understand that, making TE the focus of making this point was, IMHO, misdirected and counterproductive. The best voice for getting MM's issues addressed was TE precisely because he was a member of this community first. Now he is just another PPA representative TO this community. The difference will be felt - but hopefully not to a degree that will hurt the overall cause.

Skallagrim

[Jerry D]

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I feel like going outside and setting my 5 twoplustwo books on fire. You have to be joking. Mason if you want to drive traffic to other sites then so be it. Unfortunately the time it takes to reorganize and what not, you have done alot of damage already I'm afraid. I feel like this is dealing with my 3 year old and sending him to timeout.

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