Proof of Fundamental Theorem of Poker?

[indianaV8]

Proof is obvious. If you know more than your opponent you have an edge from GT PoV. And if you manage to play LIKE you have an edge from GT PoV then you have an edge.

But if you are interested in theory, drop the sklansky FTOP nonsense and study game theory (start with mathematics of poker).

[Mark1808]

Knowing your opponents cards will not mean you will play optimally. To do that you must also know how the opponent will play his various hands. In other words if you have the best hand it is not optimal to bet if you know he will bluff if you check.

[RustyBrooks]

But you could not play better by not knowing his cards. Knowing his cards will always allow you to perform better than not.

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
But you could not play better by not knowing his cards. Knowing his cards will always allow you to perform better than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not always. If I know his cards but don't know how he plays his cards I may play more optimally not seeing them in certain situations. The pefect example is check calling a bluff. If I could see his cards and see he has bottom pair to my top pair I might bet for value. However it may be more optimal to check if I knew he would fold to a bet and bet when checked to.

Even when bet in to on the river when you have the best hand knowing how your opponent plays his cards can add more value then just seeing them. How much of a raise will he call?

Obviously given the choice I could make more money seeing the hole cards than knowing how he plays his cards, but you need to have both to fully optimize play.

[RustyBrooks]

Right but I'm saying knowledge of your opponent PLUS knowledge of his hole cards is always better than simply knowledge of your opponent. To think otherwise is ridiculous.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

I'm not sure I understand the question, entirely, as the proof is rather self evident. Poker is a game of odds, that change based on a combination of known and unknown cards. All the FTOP says is that when you play differently than you would if you had perfect knowledge, you lose, and when your opponents plays differently you gain. its really just a building block for understanding more complicated issues like deception, semi-bluffing, and value betting.

I mean, you really don't doubt that knowing you opponents hole cards would allow you to play in a more profitable manner, and is indeed what we should base our game on?