100r QQ semi deep

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
The main problem with folding preflop, is that every(way more than 99%) of tournament players don't have a "range", they see a hand and then think "hmmm, what will we do with this". As a result, raises like this, from players who aren't idiots are hugely weighted towards hands that want folds from such an early position raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very true. Most players make decisions in the moment. I mean, if you're playing 8 tables, you're probably not seeing the raise in the corner if you're playing another hand. But when you see action is on you, you see your hand and say "Oh, xx, better make it yy." Or even if you aren't, you see your hand before any action online, which means you're already thinking about it. You're not thinking "Oh, xx raised, but he took a few seconds, I should repop him wider than normal, ah, I have JTs, that's good enough".

IMO people often don't weigh ranges properly when discussing hands. Hardly anyone even mentions it.

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of varying raise sizes, at a recent home game 5/5, a player asked a WPT champion "what is your favorite hand and how much do you raise when you get it?", no hesitation he responded "QhQs, 6xBB"... the fan boy raised anywhere from 2.5x to 10x throughout the session.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, names please

[JSchnett]

I dont like calling becasue if he had AK on a rags flop he checks

shove

[Stumpy]

Bakes,

I think TT+,AK is the tightest re-raising range you can take as believable.

I think everyone feels his range is wider because it's the bubble.
Does him re-raising an UTG+1 raise from UTG+2 tighten that much? I would think some, but I don't play these stakes.

If you trust me on the calculations, I looked at QQ vs TT+,AK assuming:
You call and check/shove a non A/K flop, or an A/K + Q flop.
I'm being extremely generous and saying you'll stack TT/JJ on any 9 high flop, and that he c-bets every time you check to him.

It is still -1.7k on average.
Pushing preflop against TT+, AK is 50/50 and worth +1.8k chips, because of dead money.


Now, expand his range. Almost anything you add to his range folds to a preflop push.

Pushing wins you +26k every time he folds.

If you pushed preflop and he called as a 64/36 dog, you'd win on average 26k.
You're a 64/36 favorite but him calling is still break-even for you over pushing and him folding.
You'd prefer he fold as a 40/60.

I really have to stress how awesome it is to pick up 26k preflop. It is very, very hard to do better than that postflop, especially with only 50k behind.

For calling to be better then, you need to average more than +26k for all hands you add to his range.

An A/K with no Q is hitting 1/3rd of the time.
You seem to plan to give up on those flops: (-12.8k -- your preflop call.)

For all other flops, you could win a c-bet: +42k.
You could also stack/get stacked: +71.2k / -62.8k.

I don't know how often you'd stack / get stacked. But you're not going to do better than +42k on average in those two situations.
Mostly because you've only got 50k behind. You just can't win a ton.

If you won a c-bet every time no A or K hit, you'd be +23.7k on average, but that's 2.3k worse than pushing preflop.

[Bakes]

Sounds reasonable. I'll shove pf next time.

[KneeCo]

(OT) but:
Stumpy's posts are goot and the man just quietly goes about putting a ton of work into all of them, kudos!
Meanwhile, 0evg0 sucks, recently even more so than usual.

That's all.

[Stumpy]

Thanks for all the love guys. I feel like I understand some things well, and I can run the numbers on the mostly math situations, but I'm still very lost where you just need to put an average player on a range of hands for a given uncommon action or situation. That stuff is purely experience and I just don't get to play that much.

-Stumpy

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
(OT) but:
Stumpy's posts are goot and the man just quietly goes about putting a ton of work into all of them, kudos!
Meanwhile, 0evg0 sucks, recently even more so than usual.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah seriously.