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  #11  
Old 11-11-2007, 12:59 PM
Shabamabam Shabamabam is offline
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Posts: 567
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with 8 9 4 6
Hero calls (1.5:0.5), BB raises, Hero calls (3:1).

Flop: A 2 2 (2SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (3:1).

Turn: 8 (2BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (3:1).

River: 9 (4BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (5:1).


hated it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously this wasn't the optimal line, but I was trying to set something up with my limps. I like to be super aggressive with a wide range, but sometimes there's just a need to be able to limp very marginal hands that have no low.

By limping a somewhat low-medium hand and getting it to showdown, I can display that I'm capable of limping low hands (a lot of regulars will only limp high only hands) and it'll allow me to have more strength in position because she now has to be weary.

I stand by this play as a whole. If it was just 10 or so hands that we play, definitely -ev.

Also, at these stakes, if anyone ever limps, the villain is gonna raise it 7/10 times. So I didn't necessarily expect her to have a really great hand. She did, but w/e.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:03 PM
Shabamabam Shabamabam is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 567
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with 8 A J T
SB raises, Hero calls (3:1).

Flop: Q 9 K (3SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets, Hero calls (4:1).

Turn: 2 (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks.

River: 6 (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

this one: i prefer check/call river. you only gonna get called by a baby flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh. I hate check/call here. If Villain has a baby flush, 1 bet is going in no matter what. I check, Villain bets, I call.

Anything else she checks behind (not a good spot at all imo to bluff and won't expect villain to do it unless retarded), but there's still a slight chance that she'll call with a set or even make a curious call with two pair.

Considering all options, it's a must-bet every time.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:17 PM
Shabamabam Shabamabam is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 567
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $1896.50
BB: $2097.50

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with K T A K
Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: J 5 J (3SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls (6:1).

Turn: 7 (3.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (4.5:1).

River: 3 (5.5BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: 5.5BB


something to think about: i get c/r'ed a lot on these high paired boards when i preflop raise. i think you can counter by 3 betting the flop and then bet turn, if you get c/r'ed again i would confidently fold.

your line is straightforward. 3 betting makes you very tough to play OOP. just an idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I mix this line up a lot, and you really have to.

This was one of the first times that villain has c/red me.

First, we have to consider the board. It's J J 5 rainbow.
What could she be c/ring there with? I'm either way ahead or am severely crushed.

If this is the case, the best thing to do is flat call. Especially when there's a backdoor low that can get very messy on the turn (there's a lot of cards on the turn that even if we are winning, we won't be winning by much anymore).

Couple that with the fact that we use pot control and get to SEE how she handles this situation from time, I think it's a call in this particular situation.

The only thing that I contemplated about was whether or not to value bet the river.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2007, 01:36 PM
Shabamabam Shabamabam is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 567
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with 2 6 K Q
Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: T 9 J (3SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: J (1.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (2.5:1).

River: 6 (3.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: 7.5BB


wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely LOVED this hand. At first glance, without seeing any history, it looks completely unusual.

What made me take this line was this hand earlier in the session.

Results:
Final pot: 0.25BB

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $2020.50
BB: $1972

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with 8 J 2 7
Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: 9 Q T (3SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (4:1).

Turn: 8 (2.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

She was OOP, and led on that board. She then led the turn pretty quickly and then gave up when the most obvious draw card hit. What this doesn't show is timing, which gives me information, but I don't wanna elaborate on that.

In this hand, I think she either has two pair or nothing. If she had two pair she's leading out cuz the board is scary and she doesn't want draws to get there.

Translate that hand over to here. From the past hands, if I had missed on these type of hands, I'd usually just give up, so again if she had two pair it would make sense for her to lead.

But she doesn't. She checks, I check behind.

Now obviously the turn card changes how I was going to proceed with the hand and now I have to improvise.

She leads, not too quick, but a nice thinking lead. Now I don't put her on a full house already (reasons from before), so I can do two things: call or raise.

If I raise, It's harder for Villain to continue if she has a draw.

If I call, she can continue with her draw (if she has one), and get priced in if she hits river or even throw in a bluff (as my hand looks pretty weak) if she misses.

If she has a jack, she's not going anywhere. By calling it keeps the pot small and I can decide what to do on the river. Raising if she has a jack gives her implied odds because I'm probably gonna bet any river and would hate a c/r.

Also if she has a hand like QQ+, it's easier for her to pay off if I just flat call there.

The river was a safe card in my mind, especially given the timing of her bet, so I decide to raise for value.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:17 PM
donger donger is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,531
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

This is not a low content thread.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2007, 03:07 PM
Shabamabam Shabamabam is offline
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Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

It was meant to be at first.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:37 PM
howzit howzit is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ATM 500 max
Posts: 845
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with 8 A J T
SB raises, Hero calls (3:1).

Flop: Q 9 K (3SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets, Hero calls (4:1).

Turn: 2 (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks.

River: 6 (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

this one: i prefer check/call river. you only gonna get called by a baby flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh. I hate check/call here. If Villain has a baby flush, 1 bet is going in no matter what. I check, Villain bets, I call.

Anything else she checks behind (not a good spot at all imo to bluff and won't expect villain to do it unless retarded), but there's still a slight chance that she'll call with a set or even make a curious call with two pair.

Considering all options, it's a must-bet every time.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're right.
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:46 PM
howzit howzit is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ATM 500 max
Posts: 845
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ull Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is SB with Q 9 2 A
Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: T 9 6 (3SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 6 (1.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (2.5:1).

River: T (3.5BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.


i think there's value in a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. What are we expecting villain to have and what are we extracting value from?

I agree that there's the offchance that we might get value out of a lower 9 or 6 even, but the times we bet and get scooped by JJ+ just makes us look silly.

[/ QUOTE ]
i still feel like there's razor thin value.

i can't see overpair leading into turn OOP when a six is a major part of your range.

when you check flop and she checks river, a Ten is drastically reduced from both your ranges.

and since she feels that you can't have a boat or a Ten or a straight here, i'm pretty sure she would bet a six on the river for value knowing that an overpair would likely call.(this is likely since you called turn) she checks a six only to catch a bluff.

yeah, so i think you are ahead of her range here. but we both know that a bet is bordering between thin and stupid.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2007, 03:14 AM
donger donger is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,531
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

Hey, I'm definitely meaning to come back and chime in on this when I have time. One question - why not post the results of each hand? We kind of need that info when evaluating decisions on future hands, etc..
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2007, 03:24 AM
donger donger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,531
Default Re: (Low content) HH against Jennifer Harmon

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $50/$100
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with 8 A J T
SB raises, Hero calls (3:1).

Flop: Q 9 K (3SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets, Hero calls (4:1).

Turn: 2 (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks.

River: 6 (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

this one: i prefer check/call river. you only gonna get called by a baby flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

O RLY? This might be true if it went B/C B/C on the flop and turn, but the turn checkthrough means that she's probably willing to snap a river bluff with less than a straight. I think cking here gives up a ton of value and lets her play perfectly against us.
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