Dealing with abusive player from the floor/dealer perspective.

[bernie]

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He told me to go ahead and speak up if I was sure I was right, but to understand I wouldn't be welcome to watch the game anymore if I was wrong.

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Yeah, this is the same ruling I've gotten from several floor personnel. How hard is this to understand, bernie, et. al?

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Who spoke to who first? You seem to be missing that you initiated yourself into the conversation. And don't try and tell me that your initial 'innocent' comment wasn't meant for him.

b

[MicroBob]

Exactly.

If the prick had talked to Kyle first or even if he commented on something he overheard Kyle say to somebody else then that's one thing.

But Kyle's on the rail telling the guy, "I didn't know they were giving free lessons tonight."

That's initiating it.

This isn't about being the kind of person who speaks his mind and doesn't take crap.
The prick wasn't talking to Kyle at all.

This is about not butting in where you don't belong.

I don't see this being any different if Kyle didn't know anybody else in the game.
Is it appropriate for him to go up to some random 30/60 game where he knows nobody and make a similar comment? Of course not.

[kyleb]

Again, you guys are nitting it up big time. Please read the last post I made in the thread.

[steamboatin]

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Again, you guys are nitting it up big time. Please read the last post I made in the thread.

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I can run the game from the rail and you should lke it because I am a balla and that is how I roll. If you guys weren't all NITs,you would understand.

LOL, I bet next week we will have another thread because someone from the rail interuppted the Bala game and what an [censored] that railbird was.

[Lee_C]

The rail is for watching the game. Period.

[stabn]

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As for the game, we're playing 4/8. Most of us play much, much higher, so we're absolutely screwing around for the majority of the time. Therefore, we're giving the locals tons of undue action and we tip the dealers/floor very well. I'm good friends with most of the dealers and the floor at Parker's, to boot.

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Sorry, but that's not justification for disrupting/escalating a situation in a game from the rail.

b

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He didn't escalate it.

I don't really feel like getting into everything that happened but this douche had been belittling players for their play for hours. At one point he was calling some minority a "crazy bus driver". They got into an argument (for the 3rd or fourth time) in which at least 10 f-bombs were dropped in 3 seconds. The dealer had to warn them that if another f-bomb was dropped they were gone. The floor did not know about this. He berated a guy for cold calling his utg raise with AJ and flopping a straight, because "THAT WAS UNDER THE GUN - THE STRONGEST RAISE IN POKER".

He berated 3 other players after AK/AQ/KQ were shown down on the river on a kqxxx board saying "that is what you guys are capping with? idiots". He had actually capped that hand with TT from the small blind. To deflect him from berating the fish more i let him know that he had infact capped preflop. He said "yes but i had the best hand! i'm not a moron!". I kindly informed him that it was not very likely that he had the best hand if he folded a kqx flop. At this point he decided to go on and on about how TT was a made hand. He was laughing and asking people near him "lol what wins more TT or AK". I had already seen him make some mistakes after what he perceived to be a bad beat happened so since i had gotten him to stop yakking at the fish i decided to continue taking AK in whatever question he asked.

For the next several hours if i raised he would say something like "mr AK is better than TT is raising again over there". He also continued to berate other players any time he lost a pot or they did something he thought was a mistake. When kyle spoke up he actually ignored it for a few seconds and continued to berate someone else at the table. After it was obvious no one cared about his opinion on the hand anymore he decided he might be able to get kyle kicked off the rail and score a victory for douchebags everywhere.

When talking to the floor he lied several times. He claimed that he hadn't argued with anyone at the table the whole night and that kyle was commenting about a hand while it was in play . He also claimed that kyle "gave unsolicited advice as to how to play his hand from the rail". Kyle never gave any advice about how to play the hand at all.

You can all choose to think what you want about kyle or his actions but kyle speaking up was probably good for the game overall. It got the floor called over which probably should have happened hours before when he traded f-bombs with another player. When he did receive the warning from the floor he shut up for quite a while and only insulted people at the table a few more times. I was then able to calm one of them down by saying "i don't want to argue about it", which would not have worked before he was warned.

[DGenR8]

The debate about justification misses the point. You can't expect a dick to respond to reason or to show any kind of insight into his own behavior.

YES, you're justified in telling someone they're a dick, if it's true. But the greater good is NOT served by souring the mood at the table, nor in running off this guy who isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is.

Trying to argue points with people like this gets you nowhere. I find that completely off-topic humor interjected whenever guys like this start to rant is much more effective. It diffuses the tension, indirectly mocks the jackass, and doesn't violate the rules.

For example:

Jackass: "Good God! You call with that crap?? I can't believe you! What a total donk play..."

Me: (loudly to neighbor so everyone can hear) "You know, I had the most intresting bowel movement this morning. It kinda came out wider than long, so I damn near passed out. But the weird thing was, it kinda looked like the Virgin Mary. Or at least one of the Apostles. You think I could get some money for it on ebay?"

By now the table is laughing, and the jackass is deprived of the attention (which is what he really wants in the first place). And he also is getting the (correct) impression that everyone is laughing at HIM.

[AngusThermopyle]

You might get some response from the Floor if you don't sit there and take it from the Jerk for several hours. (But I do think dealers should notify the Floor after they are pushed about 'problems' at a table. Maybe the dealers in your case didn't consider him a 'problem')

Either stand up for yourself against the Jerk, or take a few minutes to talk to the Floor and explain the situation. Yes, you might miss your Blinds or a few "free hands". But if you wait for the Floor to get called or come over on his own because of the commotion, you got exactly what you deserve.

And apparently your "fish" weren't that disturbed. I have seen Jerks break up games when 3-4 players quit at once. Was your Jerk causing people to leave or sit out? You would be amazed at what recreational players will put up with, and sometime even enjoy. Some enjoy putting a beat on a Table Captain, just to see him go off.

[DeuceKicker]

I think DGenR8 gives the most effective solution to the TC problem. I haven't tried the Virgin Mary BM line, but I usually throw out a few self-deprecating jokes to take the focus off TC and his current target.

If your aim is to keep the game fun and profitable, going toe to toe with the guy, pointing out his math and logic mistakes, isn't going to work at all. He'll never back down. The fish will be driven away either by the constant bickering or by the heated discussions of equity, odds, and EV.

[stabn]

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If your aim is to keep the game fun and profitable, going toe to toe with the guy, pointing out his math and logic mistakes, isn't going to work at all. He'll never back down. The fish will be driven away either by the constant bickering or by the heated discussions of equity, odds, and EV.

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No one went toe to toe with him on math and/or logic mistakes.

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And apparently your "fish" weren't that disturbed.


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Several went off about him when he went to play pai gow and again when he busted.