Ask Noah About First Year of Law School, Getting inTop 10%, Law Review

[nickg1532]

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Also, to agree with Dave re: outlines--imo the idea of having a 75-100 page outline (people do this!) is ridiculous. My outlines were pretty much never more than 30 pages, and usually between 20-25.

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I'm going to disagree and say have both.


The outlines I personally made were like 20-30 pages of Law. Example. Policy. Done.

But I'd always bring my full classnotes and if allowed, an expanded outline from online or something. I'd spend 45 minutes reading the 90 pager and tabbing it up. This way, you can use your 20-30 page outline for the basics, but if you find yourself with extra time, or are really lost about the minute details, you got a more complete resource to check out.

A lot of times, I'd use my outline, finish my essays with a little time left, and flip through the unnecessarily big outline, pulling out little phrases and cases references that were obviously not necessary to a complete answer, but still added some authority and impressiveness to your paper.

If you have to choose 25pg outline or 90pg outline, choose the 25pg one. But why choose?

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Noah,

I basically agree with this. Almost all of my exams were completely open book, meaning you could bring anything and everything. I brought everything, even all my class notes, because (just like you said) it never hurts to have the info there just in case there is something that your outline doesn't cover.

What I meant was that, when sitting down and producing the outline that will become your primary study tool, I think getting near 100 pages is excessive, at least for me.

[nickg1532]

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On-Campus ends next Monday, and I haven't done it yet, though I've researched tons of firms. At my school, you can bid for basically all of them, but you must rank them. The ranking only matters for the Top 10, because they reserve some spots for random lottery selections, and based upon your rank relative to others, you have a better/worse shot of getting an interview with that firm.

It's actually a tricky thing to figure out, because obviously lots of people will rank the top firms high, but then there are firms that have less interview spots, different locations, lesser-known firms, etc.



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Our school pretty much does it the same way, though I don't think we do a lottery. Like yours, we have up to 50 bids, ranked 1 to 50, and I'm pretty sure that the assignment of interviews is entirely dependent on those rankings.

You're totally right about it being tricky. I had a real tough time trying to assign my bids. It's requires a complex, multi-factored analysis. I have no idea if I did a good job of bidding or if I'm gonna get screwed. I did my best to take into account the factors you mentioned (location, firm prestige, number of interviewing spots, etc.) but who knows how it will end up.

[XXXNoahXXX]

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On-Campus ends next Monday, and I haven't done it yet, though I've researched tons of firms. At my school, you can bid for basically all of them, but you must rank them. The ranking only matters for the Top 10, because they reserve some spots for random lottery selections, and based upon your rank relative to others, you have a better/worse shot of getting an interview with that firm.

It's actually a tricky thing to figure out, because obviously lots of people will rank the top firms high, but then there are firms that have less interview spots, different locations, lesser-known firms, etc.



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Our school pretty much does it the same way, though I don't think we do a lottery. Like yours, we have up to 50 bids, ranked 1 to 50, and I'm pretty sure that the assignment of interviews is entirely dependent on those rankings.

You're totally right about it being tricky. I had a real tough time trying to assign my bids. It's requires a complex, multi-factored analysis. I have no idea if I did a good job of bidding or if I'm gonna get screwed. I did my best to take into account the factors you mentioned (location, firm prestige, number of interviewing spots, etc.) but who knows how it will end up.

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See, right now we have 118 people coming for OCI and we get 125 bids. SO i could feasibly bid for every single one.

For us, only the top 10 rankings count, and no employer ever sees where you ranked them.

[Hey_Porter]

I would just like to chime in with the fact that I just finished the first day of the Oregon Bar Exam, and it feels fantastic.

[XXXNoahXXX]

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I would just like to chime in with the fact that I just finished the first day of the Oregon Bar Exam, and it feels fantastic.

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good luck finishing. that seems so close and yet so far off right now. how'd you prep? im assuming you took a course?

[Hey_Porter]

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I would just like to chime in with the fact that I just finished the first day of the Oregon Bar Exam, and it feels fantastic.

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good luck finishing. that seems so close and yet so far off right now. how'd you prep? im assuming you took a course?

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I took BarBri. Waste of time, in my opinion, although the materials are good to have. My law school study strategy mirrored yours to a T. I pretty much found law school classes to be a waste of time, and BarBri classes were the same way. If I had to do it again, I would just buy the books.

Later I might add a little more about law review (mainly how it's a big waste of time, but you should do it), but at this point I'll just add that the best thing about law review was the outline bank. GOLD.

[bobman0330]

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I would just like to chime in with the fact that I just finished the first day of the Oregon Bar Exam, and it feels fantastic.

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good luck finishing. that seems so close and yet so far off right now. how'd you prep? im assuming you took a course?

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I took BarBri. Waste of time, in my opinion, although the materials are good to have. My law school study strategy mirrored yours to a T. I pretty much found law school classes to be a waste of time, and BarBri classes were the same way. If I had to do it again, I would just buy the books.

Later I might add a little more about law review (mainly how it's a big waste of time, but you should do it), but at this point I'll just add that the best thing about law review was the outline bank. GOLD.

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I really disagree. I'm taking the Ohio bar now. I thought the BarBri lectures were excellent. Essentially my only studying was watching the lectures, rereading my lecture notes, and doing practice questions, and I think I'm pretty well set.

[censored] Ohio won't let you leave if you finish early though, so the MBE tomorrow is going to be brutal.

[Hey_Porter]

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I would just like to chime in with the fact that I just finished the first day of the Oregon Bar Exam, and it feels fantastic.

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good luck finishing. that seems so close and yet so far off right now. how'd you prep? im assuming you took a course?

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I took BarBri. Waste of time, in my opinion, although the materials are good to have. My law school study strategy mirrored yours to a T. I pretty much found law school classes to be a waste of time, and BarBri classes were the same way. If I had to do it again, I would just buy the books.

Later I might add a little more about law review (mainly how it's a big waste of time, but you should do it), but at this point I'll just add that the best thing about law review was the outline bank. GOLD.

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I really disagree. I'm taking the Ohio bar now. I thought the BarBri lectures were excellent. Essentially my only studying was watching the lectures, rereading my lecture notes, and doing practice questions, and I think I'm pretty well set.

[censored] Ohio won't let you leave if you finish early though, so the MBE tomorrow is going to be brutal.

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Yea, I guess it's just a matter of how you like to learn. I'm all about teaching myself. I guess "complete waste of time" is a bit of stretch, but I can safely say that only about four of the lectures were worth going to: Whitebread, Epstein, live Secured Trans (pretty told us everything we needed to know, no more, no less) and live Income Tax.

[DemonDeac]

Noah,

I was hoping you could expand a little bit more on the topic of preparing for the exam and not for class.

You've alluded to it a few times in other responses. For example, if the profesor says he's not interested in policy, then don't bother reading anything about the case that deals with the policy issues.

But are there other aspects that you could possibly expand on, or is it all just a variation of what was previously stated?

TIA

-Deac

[XXXNoahXXX]

Mini-Trip Report from Firm Reception:

I just went to a firm reception at a Boston firm. The firm is right on the waterfront and has an amazing deck, so it was basically just walking around the deck drinking beer and eating amazing food. I implore you to go to as many as possible. I was there for two hours, and just hung out with people from my law school, and occasionally an associate from the firm would pop into the conversation, tell us some things about the firm, we'd ask some questions, etc.

Then we took a tour of the offices, which were pretty nice, and best of all, it was 6:45pm on a Wed. and they were deserted. Maybe this was a tactical decision on their part since they knew we'd be taking the tours, but it definitely added some credibility to their claim that there isn't as much pressure to bill hours, etc.

Also, it was interesting to watch the associates and partners interact on the deck, and it definitely seemed like a laid back (comparatively) environment.

The Pros of the firm were that the hours are less than the megafirms (one associate I spoke with said that hours worked per week in an average month would be something like four weeks of 40 hrs., 55 hrs, 50 hrs, 70 hrs. They seemed to be genuine in their "no face time" policy, etc. and they have an in-house chef and amazing location. They also have a really strong presence in a practice area I'm interested in.


The Cons were that it pays less than the biggest firms 135k<160k and I guess they don't do bonuses. Also, since they specialize in one area, the rest of the firm revolves around that area, and since I don't know what I want to do yet, I am wary of this. Also, since its not a national firm, thye prestige factor and exit options might not be ass great.


Also, when we left we got USB keychains w/ their name on it.


Food Served: Crab Cakes, Coconut Chicken, Bacon-wrapped melon, apple sausage w/ pineapple, chocolate-covered strawberries, etc.


Beer of Choice: Magic Hat-Circus Boy


definitely made me think better of the firm and was nice to give me a sense of what a firm is like, kinda.