25NL - Going broke with TPTK

hummusx · #1 05-20-2007, 02:19 AM

I have a really hard time hitting that fold button. I think I've actually gotten to the point where I can successfully fold a lot of TPTK to set farmers when they hit. This guy was 38/22, so definitely not a set farmer. I had only played a few hands with him though, which means those could be off. I had no specific reads.

He could have had a set. He could have had 2 pair. But I could not bring myself to hit that fold button. Please berate me so that I may improve.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($47.70)
SB ($41.25)
BB ($25.60)
UTG ($12.90)
Hero ($39.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $2, SB raises to $5, BB folds, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($13) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $7.25, Hero calls $7.25.

River: ($27.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $28 (All-In), Hero calls $26.30 (All-In).

Final Pot: $81.80

jerryf1914 · #2 05-20-2007, 02:31 AM

jesus what the hell it looks like he must have hit runner runner flush

corsakh · #3 05-20-2007, 02:38 AM

Tough. This is a busted flush very often. I fold the first time, next time I call.

Entropy4 · #4 05-20-2007, 02:42 AM

I think you're going to see AQ and 22 here most of the time, and Ax of hearts only some of the time. AJ and weaker doesn't overbet shove the river.

When I started at 25NL, I had to put a giant note on the top of my monitor that said "DO NOT CALL TURN/RIVER SHOVE WITH TPTK" because I lost 4-5 buy-ins from it. It's just NOT +EV in the long-run. After I learned this, I quickly became profitable at 25NL. I feel like learning to fold TPTK is the biggest lesson at this level.

As played I probably fold turn, but definitely fold river. I just will not call a shove with TPTK unless I have a VERY strong read on the guy. I've lost too many buy-ins doing it.

hummusx · #5 05-20-2007, 02:48 AM

Thanks for the thoughtful comments Entropy. The thing that makes this lesson so hard I think is situations just like this. At showdown the guy turned over a busted flush draw - he had something like 9h5h. I'm not convinced that these calls are -EV overall at 25NL, but the value of learning to let TPTK go at this level is probably a big money saver as I move up.

corsakh · #6 05-20-2007, 02:52 AM

I have to add this. If there was Ah in you hand or on the board, the busted flush would be much less likely.

jmgambler · #7 05-20-2007, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the thoughtful comments Entropy. The thing that makes this lesson so hard I think is situations just like this. At showdown the guy turned over a busted flush draw - he had something like 9h5h. I'm not convinced that these calls are -EV overall at 25NL, but the value of learning to let TPTK go at this level is probably a big money saver as I move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am gonna go back and "Edit" my post to read "Easy river call, its obviously a bluff" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

jmgambler · #8 05-20-2007, 07:20 PM

Less and less I am going to the felt with TPTK, I woulda called the turn too 1/2 pot, But the river fold is easy for me, I learnt long time ago to fold this (not that it gets any easier, LOL).

I have got into a habit of asking myself "What do I beat here" you think Villian will push with AJ/AT here? I expect to see 22/AQ here

corsakh · #9 05-20-2007, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Less and less I am going to the felt with TPTK, I woulda called the turn too 1/2 pot, But the river fold is easy for me, I learnt long time ago to fold this (not that it gets any easier, LOL).

I have got into a habit of asking myself "What do I beat here" you think Villian will push with AJ/AT here
? I expect to see 22/AQ here

[/ QUOTE ]

Get out of it ASAP. Ask yourself what hand he would play this way, what you beat is irrelevant.

jmgambler · #10 05-20-2007, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Less and less I am going to the felt with TPTK, I woulda called the turn too 1/2 pot, But the river fold is easy for me, I learnt long time ago to fold this (not that it gets any easier, LOL).

I have got into a habit of asking myself "What do I beat here" you think Villian will push with AJ/AT here
? I expect to see 22/AQ here

[/ QUOTE ]

Get out of it ASAP. Ask yourself what hand he would play this way, what you beat is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take your point, but "what hand he would play this way" & "What hand I beat" goes hand in hand for me (forgive the Pun) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]