BarryG - Online Poker should be legal in 6 months

[WJL]

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I talked to my accountant about this sometime back.

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You need a new accountant. This is not only wrong, it is is ridiculous.

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There aren't very many people in this world I trust very much, but this guy has saved me thousands. Without specifics, your post is ridiculous. Make a reasonable argument.

[Temp Hutter]

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but if you get a good tax accountant, and they don't really cost that much,

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I think you need to spend a little more money on your accountant.

One large mistake is thinking that the money you win playing poker is not taxable until you cash out. The IRS will disagree with your accountant on that point.

[grdred944]

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I talked to my accountant about this sometime back.

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You need a new accountant. This is not only wrong, it is is ridiculous.

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There aren't very many people in this world I trust very much, but this guy has saved me thousands. Without specifics, your post is ridiculous. Make a reasonable argument.

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Temp made one. I'll make another...

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Money placed in an online site is sort of like money placed in stocks; at the end of the year, you count what you cashed out as income, what you put in as investments, and pay tax at standard rates on the difference. Rake could well be deductible as a business expense. It may even be handled as capital gains rather than straight income.

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No offense to your accountant, but if he really operates this way he is insane and you do need a new accountant.

By using his logic, I could buy a hooker and tell the government that it was sorta like a stock investment. On the off chance I would knock her up I could later use the benefits of having a child for tax savings. Well, technically, I would be renting the hooker which would open up even more possibilities re. to whether I could capitalize the payment.

The IRS doesn't go for words like 'sorta'. Depositing on a web site is not like investing in stocks and rake has nothing to do with business expenses. And certainly cannot be handled as a capital gains.

[YoureToast]

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Usually I post in the Legislation forum. However, I thought that I would clarify some matters for this discussion. One, neither the IGREA nor Rep. Wexler's bill to exempt skill games, including poker, from federal anti-gambling legislation conforms to the WTO decision. To conform to the WTO decision the US must (1) permit foreign firms to offer all online gambling services to US citizens without regulation or taxation of these firms or (2) prohibit offering all online gambling including horse racing, state lotteries and fantasy sports in the US for both domestic and foreign firms. Two, any federal legislation in this area will supersede any current state law. The state laws that prohibit online gambling likely violate the commerce clause of the US constitution. Any attorney in the state of Washington has already filed litigation challenging its recent ban of online gambling. Also, these state laws violate the WTO decision.
If Barry is right and the pending WTO sanctions (granting of IP sanction to Antiqua will by the key) force compliance efforts by Congress, then any regulation or taxation, outside of normal income taxes paid by individuals, can only affect US companies operating on US soil that enter the online gambling market. No country attempts to regulate or tax foreign firms that operate online gambling sites and offer these services to its citizens. Even the recent UK legislation only affected firms operating on UK soil. Some left the UK due to the high tax rate of the UK recent legislation.
IMO, if Congress acts it will be due to pressure on the Dems from the music and entertainment industry caused by the WTO granting Antiqua the right to ignore US IP laws or it will be due to court decisions against the UIGEA, due any day, or against the Wire Act in the BetOnSports case.
I agree that Mr. Greenstein will be a excellent representative for poker players, but he will need help from one or more of these events.

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This is a good summary.

Why don't we get some people over in the software forum (I would help) to cut to the chase and build "Napster Antiqua"...Lets get the ball rolling on a real, true file/music sharing service that will kick the music industry in the ass. This will cause the music industry to put pressure on Congress, which will then have to make a decision, either to ban or allow it. They won't ban it cuz the horse racing industry would be up in arms. As soon as poker is legalized in the US, the file sharing site can be abandoned.

[king333]

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Tax % will jump to 50% or so, you heard it here first.

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THIS IS MY POINT. No limit to what they will do..you guys can bury your head in the sand and believe that your awesome democratic rep. has your back....or you can live in reality

[Skallagrim]

Been a while without really good "doom and gloom" posts on 2+2, so I kinda enjoy this "they will tax us to death so lets not support legal reform" show.

Ask yourself this: why should a professional poker player be treated any different tax-wise than any other professional? I pay taxes on the income I make off my profession, poker players should be no different.

And why would those evil dems make poker taxes any different from any other taxes (for players now, not talking sites)? Why dont they raise the tax rate to 50% on accountants and financial advisors (who mostly vote republican)?

Look, if we can get openly legal poker and get the fish back, no longer being able to avoid paying your taxes like the rest of the US is a small price to pay.

Skallagrim

[fnord_too]

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I talked to my accountant about this sometime back.

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You need a new accountant. This is not only wrong, it is is ridiculous.

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There aren't very many people in this world I trust very much, but this guy has saved me thousands. Without specifics, your post is ridiculous. Make a reasonable argument.

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Just a quick skim of your OP: income is MOST CERTAINLY counted before it is cashed out. I asked a tax attorney about that possible angle like 4 years ago. I got pretty much the answer I expected. (That is, it is counted if you are obeying the law and not counting on lack of traceability to protect you, but then you are just evading and hoping you don't get caught).

The other stuff about it being effectively like any other business looks ok.

[WJL]

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I talked to my accountant about this sometime back.

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You need a new accountant. This is not only wrong, it is is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't very many people in this world I trust very much, but this guy has saved me thousands. Without specifics, your post is ridiculous. Make a reasonable argument.

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Just a quick skim of your OP: income is MOST CERTAINLY counted before it is cashed out. I asked a tax attorney about that possible angle like 4 years ago. I got pretty much the answer I expected. (That is, it is counted if you are obeying the law and not counting on lack of traceability to protect you, but then you are just evading and hoping you don't get caught).

The other stuff about it being effectively like any other business looks ok.

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That makes some sense, I guess. Given the day-to-day flux in bankroll size, however, what number would be taxed? Would it be wins vs. losses for a session? Would be total bankroll as of xx/xx/2008 minus total bankroll as of xx/xx/2007 minus any deposits plus any cashouts? Would they try to account for it bet by bet? It just seemed to me that Cashouts - deposits was the simple and easy way to handle it, much like stock transactions.

How is income calculated in your scenario, fnord?

[Temp Hutter]

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Ask yourself this: why should a professional poker player be treated any different tax-wise than any other professional?

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I agree that poker income should be treated equally, but the US tax system is fraught with examples of inequality based on arbitrary rules. Think about renters versus homeowners or married versus single for examples.

And look no further than taxes on tobacco and alcohol for why poker may get taxed differently.

[CrazyEyez]

Just got an email from Doyle's Room saying there are re-opening to US players. First sign of light at the end of the tunnel?

Nevermind I guess we knew this days ago.