Dealing with a downswing... - Page 4

TheWorstPlayer · #31 11-19-2007, 09:04 PM

that would be bad

Ship Ship McGipp · #32 11-19-2007, 10:06 PM

once a month someone makes a post like this

those two hands look poor, in my opinion

DanielDayLewis · #33 11-19-2007, 11:06 PM

I don't really mind hand 1 all that much. I'd just call but I think against vice you might get value from a K since he calls sorta loose if your line looks a bit weird. Problem is ur definately losing value frm AJ+ and QT and 77. So its -EV given his range.

I don't like hand 2. The only possible benefit is if you somehow got to showdown and can then take the same line with a winner and get paid.

JackAll · #34 11-20-2007, 10:08 AM

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that would be bad

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once a month someone makes a post like this

those two hands look poor, in my opinion

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I guess at 400nl there are 2 tpes of players - fairly standard tags, and monkeys.

And against standard tag's I thought hand 2 seems like a good spot to c/r in.

Maybe 600nl has some much better tags who can read souls or something. Otherwise can someone explain it, cuz I don't really take SHIPSHIP's and TheWorstPlayer's comments lightly.

Lefort · #35 11-20-2007, 01:10 PM

It's a common theme that people don't like turning hands with showdown equity into bluffs on these boards... just let it be... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TheWorstPlayer · #36 11-20-2007, 02:02 PM

For me it's more that someone who bets JT isn't folding to a c/r and someone who is folding to a c/r would just check it back on the turn. The vast majority of the time.

JackAll · #37 11-20-2007, 04:42 PM

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It's a common theme that people don't like turning hands with showdown equity into bluffs on these boards... just let it be... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I would say that might be so for most of the monkeys on 2+2, but I would not call ShipShip or TWP monkeys.

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For me it's more that someone who bets JT isn't folding to a c/r and someone who is folding to a c/r would just check it back on the turn. The vast majority of the time.

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You think that even a thinking player on this type of board and this deep wouldn't be folding to a c/r here with a J?

And even if they will often check it back if we check, we miss an opportunity to push them off a better hand. Or is it that you think they have a lower 8X hand here a lot?

LucidDream · #38 11-20-2007, 04:44 PM

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For me it's more that someone who bets JT isn't folding to a c/r and someone who is folding to a c/r would just check it back on the turn. The vast majority of the time.

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i mean maybe and i understand what ur saying but i think alot of times they are just betting the turn w/ these hand w/ the intention of taking a free SD on the river...in that case they aren't going to be calling the c/r.

TheWorstPlayer · #39 11-20-2007, 06:14 PM

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For me it's more that someone who bets JT isn't folding to a c/r and someone who is folding to a c/r would just check it back on the turn. The vast majority of the time.

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i mean maybe and i understand what ur saying but i think alot of times they are just betting the turn w/ these hand w/ the intention of taking a free SD on the river...in that case they aren't going to be calling the c/r.

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OK, there's some EV in the c/r. But compare it to a c/c line. C/c looks a lot better to me. If you had no showdown value whatsoever, maybe the bluff is +EV (I personally doubt it, but okay you could at least argue for it). But you have a decent pair with the best kicker. You have a lot of equity against your opponent's range. Why would you rely on your bluff equity (which, again, I doubt is very high) instead of your considerable showdown value?

JackAll · #40 11-21-2007, 02:40 AM

I think on that board, he has 8x, Jx, 99, TT a lot (and 55 occasionbally and 67/9T also)

Against 8x, Jx, 99, TT we are behind a bunch of hands because we have one of the 8's so there is more Jx hands than 8x hands. When we throw in 99/TT we are behind a lot more than we are ahead of. Also, I think a lot of people will bet with a big range of the hands we beat after we check the turn including a most Jx hands as well as 99/TT - all wanting to not give your perceived AK a free card. That is why I think a c/r is good here - because we are actually folding out a lot of hands that we do beat.

Obv against someone who never folds, this sux, but I think OP said he was a thinking player.