KK facing pot sized river bet (PS $162)

[ZJ123]

i call if im a little tilted/bored. Fold otherwise.

[Steve Williams]

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Does anyone bluff the turn here (in order to avoid being bluffed on the river)?

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no.....no..........no................no

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why is that so bad (serious Q), if you bet like 1400-1800 here (basically an amount you'd call on the river), why not bet here so that if he calls and leads river you're 100% not good. most often after you've fired twice villain is much more likely to check river which will allow you to get to showdown cheaper.

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I need some help with this too. It seems like checking the turn on a scare card often induces a bluff which creates a difficult decision on the river. To me it doesn't seem bad to bet/fold the turn & check the river.

[pokerman777]

bet turn it's a best way here i think.

[Steve Williams]

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he can bluff the river if you check the turn. You can get c/red on the turn by a bluff/ semibluff.

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I'm OK inducing a bluff when I have reads...readless I prefer to keep the betting lead. If I get bluff checkraised on the turn its a pretty sick spot...villain would have to put me on exactly JJ-KK for this to work and it would seem like a big leak for me to continue.

[ZJ123]

poker is not about having easy decisions, its about making the most Ev+ decision.

I.E. There is a much greater chance JTs calls a river bet if you check behind (also theres no likely draw in villains range), By betting the turn almost all worse hands fold and better hands call.

[AGame18]

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poker is not about having easy decisions, its about making the most Ev+ decision.

I.E. There is a much greater chance JTs calls a river bet if you check behind (also theres no likely draw in villains range), By betting the turn almost all worse hands fold and better hands call.

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I think the problem with that is a lot of the time you'd bet that turn with air to rep the Ace, and hope hands like J10 Q10 78s fold. By checking behind you're basically telling your opp. you either hit the Ace, have a pair JJ-KK, or are just completely giving up on the hand. It is a big mistake in many tourney players games to not bet scare cards on the turn when you have a hand that is likely still best but wasn't improved by the card in question.

In other words, the player in the sb would definitely expect you to fire a 2nd barrel on the turn when the A hits, but if you only do it when you either hit the Ace or have nothing, you become pretty exploitable and predictable. Not to say checking behind on the turn is a bad play, but a bet should be considered at least sometimes here, and you do often avoid being bluffed on the river as gobbo said as well.

[ASPoker8]

I think betting the turn is a pretty large mistake

like
REALLY
large

[ASPoker8]

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poker is not about having easy decisions, its about making the most Ev+ decision.

I.E. There is a much greater chance JTs calls a river bet if you check behind (also theres no likely draw in villains range), By betting the turn almost all worse hands fold and better hands call.

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I think the problem with that is a lot of the time you'd bet that turn with air to rep the Ace, and hope hands like J10 Q10 78s fold. By checking behind you're basically telling your opp. you either hit the Ace, have a pair JJ-KK, or are just completely giving up on the hand. It is a big mistake in many tourney players games to not bet scare cards on the turn when you have a hand that is likely still best but wasn't improved by the card in question.

In other words, the player in the sb would definitely expect you to fire a 2nd barrel on the turn when the A hits, but if you only do it when you either hit the Ace or have nothing, you become pretty exploitable and predictable. Not to say checking behind on the turn is a bad play, but a bet should be considered at least sometimes here, and you do often avoid being bluffed on the river as gobbo said as well.

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AGame, you're assuming a random player is capable of handreading and basically some relatively solid thinking

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[AGame18]

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poker is not about having easy decisions, its about making the most Ev+ decision.

I.E. There is a much greater chance JTs calls a river bet if you check behind (also theres no likely draw in villains range), By betting the turn almost all worse hands fold and better hands call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the problem with that is a lot of the time you'd bet that turn with air to rep the Ace, and hope hands like J10 Q10 78s fold. By checking behind you're basically telling your opp. you either hit the Ace, have a pair JJ-KK, or are just completely giving up on the hand. It is a big mistake in many tourney players games to not bet scare cards on the turn when you have a hand that is likely still best but wasn't improved by the card in question.

In other words, the player in the sb would definitely expect you to fire a 2nd barrel on the turn when the A hits, but if you only do it when you either hit the Ace or have nothing, you become pretty exploitable and predictable. Not to say checking behind on the turn is a bad play, but a bet should be considered at least sometimes here, and you do often avoid being bluffed on the river as gobbo said as well.

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AGame, you're assuming a random player is capable of handreading and basically some relatively solid thinking

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Yea I guess that's true, and maybe I'm thinking too much like a cash gm player and not a tourney player. (I think someone like cts would agree with me here and maybe not JohnnyBax) And as I said, checking behind is fine and probably a default line, but I think a bet on the turn can certainly be rationalized and would highly consider against a thinking player.

[Soulman]

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AGame, you're assuming a random player is capable of handreading and basically some relatively solid thinking

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Also, being exploitable/predictable in the nightly $100k isn't that big of a consideration.