Uncomfortable spot with JJ (the hand, not the guy from "Good Times")

[ShawnHoo]

Good live game in SoCal Friday night.

I raise UTG with red JJ. Folded around to the SB who 3-bets it. He is a 20-something white dude, probably a lurker here. He is having a beer and chatting with a buddy who is sitting to his right and talking about pot odds. Seems like a thinking TAG, and he seems to respect my play, too.

The BB, a young black dude who is playing every hand and doing so passively, calls. I call.

Flop: 7s5c4s

SB bets, BB calls, I raise. SB 3-bets, BB calls, I call.

Turn: Ah

SB bets, BB calls.

My play? Also, what do we think of how I've got to this point so far?

[Garland]

I can already see the wheels churning: Raise representing the A and get SB off of KK, QQ (or possibly a pair worse than yours), and charge BB to draw to his straight or flush, and then check the river. Of course fold to a 3-bet.

I guess if there's ever a time to do it, now is it.

Oh, happy birthday too. Big 3-O?

Garland

[Captain R]

The only problem I have with raising the turn is that it's hard for SB to put you on an Ace here based on your flop raise, unless you have AsKs, so if he can think about things, an Ace doesn't make any sense. Thus, it's less likely to work.

This is why I sometimes just call the flop and raise the turn with JJ. You can't protect your hand on the flop, you probably want to showdown, so a raise on the turn works great this way. If he folds, fabulous. If not, showdown your JJ vs. his QQ/KK and move on to the next hand.

[BeakWetter]

Hmmm sounds familiar... didn't we just have a post like this.

I like the line so far.

I like the raise as the last bet put into the pot.
Easy fold to SB's 3-bet.
If called, check river behind and lose to BB's A6o.

[cgrohman]

Fold. I just don;t see a raise working here with an extra player in the pot and you can't possible be winning -- a thinking TAG knows your range is tight UTG and doesn't seem to care. Pre-flop is fine and post-flop is fine.

[cgrohman]

Yea, I made the post. It's different here though. 2 significant thinks- a) presence of third player b) hero raised the flop which screams overpair rather than AK or AQ.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. I just don;t see a raise working here with an extra player in the pot and you can't possible be winning -- a thinking TAG knows your range is tight UTG and doesn't seem to care. Pre-flop is fine and post-flop is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the extra player is precisely why it works better. It gives more credence to a legit hand. The only fear for me is that BB may have hit his A with his draw.

Garland

[cgrohman]

What is he representing with a turn raise? AK, AQ??

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
What is he representing with a turn raise? AK, AQ??

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a lot of TAGs who will raise the flop to try to get a free river card with naked overs. I'm of course ignoring 2nd and 3rd level "strong player vs. strong player" thinking. What I'm saying is: it happens.

Garland

[DeathDonkey]

Foldddddd.

-DeathDonkey