(stud8) what hands do you defend against steals with?

[djk123]

if you're the bringin and its folded to the guy next to you or the one before that, i'm pretty sure you shouldn't be folding any 3 low card hands, even 278.

[Andy B]

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but I never do.

[Andy B]

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I don't believe in "defending" in poker (except in some late tourney situations), but I do believe in money-making opportunities.

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I like this a lot.

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If I think villain is stealing, and I don't have much of a hand, I fold to re-enforce his behavior and get the money when I hold something.


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This is my general approach as well.

I tend to see stud/8 hands as playable or unplayable, and I tend not to open up my standards too much just because the other guy "could" be raising with anything. Perhaps my (99)4 is likely to be the "best" hand, but I frankly have no clue how to play it, and if ante-stealing is commonplace in a stud/8 game, I'm scouting hold'em tables.

[mrmr]

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I don't see the point of calling with a razz hand unless it has reasonable straight or flush possibility.

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For the chance to freeroll. If you put them on a steal attempt, and you catch either a 4th low, or pair one of your hole cards, you are in a pretty good position to take the pot down on 4th or 5th, or else split at showdown.

Is the rake bigger than the antes and bring-in?

[RustyBrooks]

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I don't see the point of calling with a razz hand unless it has reasonable straight or flush possibility.

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For the chance to freeroll. If you put them on a steal attempt, and you catch either a 4th low, or pair one of your hole cards, you are in a pretty good position to take the pot down on 4th or 5th, or else split at showdown.


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Right but most razz hands don't particularly have scoop potential.

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Is the rake bigger than the antes and bring-in?

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No, I don't think so. But if we split we'll probably chop up about 1.5sb

[AlanBostick]

In a late-night conversation in the Plaza coffee shop during the WSOP a few years back (while it was still at Binion's), Andrew Prock tried to convince me that if someone showing a low card in the door in steal position raised my bring-in, I should raise back at him, simply because of the likelihood of picking up the pot on fourth street on those occasions where the attacker bricks and I catch good. Andrew's claim is that this is a profitable play.

I am generous in giving up my bring-in when I don't have cards; when I do have cards I try to hit back hard. I don't like pure razz hands like 852, but any better low starter is worth fighting back with.

[hoppscot22]

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In a late-night conversation in the Plaza coffee shop during the WSOP a few years back (while it was still at Binion's), Andrew Prock tried to convince me that if someone showing a low card in the door in steal position raised my bring-in, I should raise back at him, simply because of the likelihood of picking up the pot on fourth street on those occasions where the attacker bricks and I catch good. Andrew's claim is that this is a profitable play.



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this actually sounds interesting...

[djk123]

just to clarify, what do you guys consider "steal position" to be?

[RustyBrooks]

I'm thinking first to act with 0-2 people between them and the BI. For more timid players, 0-1 between them and the BI.

On the other side of the coin, how often do people steal, and with what kinds of hands? I'm sticking mostly with high hands here, since as Ray Zee notes, short handed or late position with no callers, stud/8 plays find with the best high hand.

As the last person to act I often don't even want to get involved with razz hands that are worse than 1-gap straights although I make exceptions for 3 flush hands and 3 card 7s with an A, preferably in the door. It just seems like a high variance low expectation play.

[djk123]

if it's folded to me and i'm right next to the bringin, ill complete any 3 low cards, any pair, any A door, any 3 flush, any A-low-X. if the bringin is aggressive i usually just toss 3 big cards