(stud8) what hands do you defend against steals with?

[RustyBrooks]

If the guy appears to have a high only hand and you think you have it beat, then no problem.

If the value of his hand is ambiguous (showing 8 or lower, could be that pair, pair of lower value, 3 low cards, or absolute crap) what do you want to defend with, if anything? Do you usually throw away pairs here with no real low possibility?

[Phat Mack]

The answer to your question will be very dependent on the ante and bring-in structure, as well as the stats you are using to ID the steal.

Are we assuming it will be heads up?

[RustyBrooks]

Ah, good point.

I play on pokerstars and full tilt.

Pokerstars is .1sb ante with .5sb bringin. I'm getting terrific odds to call. There is .8sb in antes, .5sb BI, 1sb bet for a total of 2.3sb .5sb so I'm getting 4.6:1 to call

Full tilt is .2sb ante with a varying bringing, but usually around .25sb. So there is 1.6sb + .25sb + 1sb bet = 2.85 and I have to call .75 so that's 3.8:1 to call

Yeah, it'll be heads up - I'm referring to times when someone bets in last to act or 2nd to last to act into a pretty meh up card like 8-J, and I'm last to act in the bringin.

This is an auto-bet situation for a lot of people, I do try to note people who never steal but since I play low stakes it doesn't come up thaaat much. If the person is an auto better then obviously the chance it's a steal is 100-vpip. Either it's a high chance, or they play so much crap that I'll want to call pretty widely.

[xxeximusxx]

i will pretty much call any late position steal with a razz had that is not 872 or similair, small pair small kicker, big pair in the hole, 3 flush if live with 2 babies.

alot of players with play hands like AQ2, which really isn't that bad a play against a steal ev wise its just hard to play. I will usually toss it in the muck.

[RustyBrooks]

I don't see the point of calling with a razz hand unless it has reasonable straight or flush possibility. I would include one-gappers as reasonable, and 2 flushes as reasonable. Otherwise you're drawing to a chop or will have to fold 4th/5th a lot. People do seem to always call me with 3 low cards. I think I'd rather have any pair or some other high hand only than 3 low cards. I don't have any reasoning to back that up, it justs seems better to me. I've been throwing away small pairs in this spot a lot though.

[Micturition Man]

Depends on his range which should be a function of pot size.

In the extreme case of a heads up match with standard antes I defend only with legit hands, going as far as throwing away some small split pairs with big kickers.

In a full game with a large ante I am undecided but in addition to the above hands I think you should add in some hands like K62 or AK2.

Also in the latter situation I would consider reraising any razz hand or better.

[mrmr]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the point of calling with a razz hand unless it has reasonable straight or flush possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the chance to freeroll. If you put them on a steal attempt, and you catch either a 4th low, or pair one of your hole cards, you are in a pretty good position to take the pot down on 4th or 5th, or else split at showdown.

Is the rake bigger than the antes and bring-in?

[Phat Mack]

If villain has a low door card and catches low on 4th street, it's going to be hard not to get outplayed if I have a big door card, so if I have something like JJ7, I would rather it be (JJ)7 than (J7)J.


Premium hands for me are high low cards 877, 876 etc., pairs with low door cards, and hand with an A or 8 in the door, and all the good Stud8 hands.

Frankly, a lot depends on my history with villain, and my perceived ability to make some money off of him. I don't believe in "defending" in poker (except in some late tourney situations), but I do believe in money-making opportunities. If I think villain is stealing, and I don't have much of a hand, I fold to re-enforce his behavior and get the money when I hold something.

[djk123]

if you're the bringin and its folded to the guy next to you or the one before that, i'm pretty sure you shouldn't be folding any 3 low card hands, even 278.

[Andy B]

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but I never do.