SuitedSixes: The Movin' on Up Quest

[SuitedSixes]

I've been a SNG pro for over two years now, but realize the need to learn to play cash games. SNGs are great, but I need to start making "Big Boy Money." I've played 6-Max as high as 5/10, but have come to the realization that I am a break-even player. I am waiting for a couple of guys to have time to coach me.

I had a stray $25 in my Stars account and decided to work my way up through the levels (ala SBRugby) and learn the lessons that each buy in had to teach. I'll play whatever level is 20% of my bankroll, and move up and down accordingly.

I started this weekend playing $5NL. My goals were to actually pay attention (as a tournament donk it gets easy to shift into autoplay mode) and avoid playing big pots (again another bad tournament habit).

I won my 25th dollar this afternoon and will head to $10NL later this evening.

My honest assessment of my play at $5NL is that I won through pure aggression, and that may have started some bad habits that I will pay for in the higher levels. I essentially was able to win because the players I played were so horrible. I expected play to be more wild than it was (closer to play money), overall I would say that many players were just way too tight, and too tight after the flop. The secret to $5NL is the c-bet.

The biggest gain in my overall play was paying attention to who the calling stations were and adjusting my play against them, accordingly. This is something that is beneficial at all levels and types of poker, but I have just become too comfortable at tournaments and become lazy with the small details.

My stats (incomplete because I played some at my brother's house without PT)

TOTAL WON: $10.40
HANDS: 572
BB/100: 45.45
VP$IP: 27.80
PFR%: 14.51
TA: 3.87

I'll update again after some time at $10NL.

[Gelford]

No offence, but this sounds like a waste of time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Roger Mainfield]

Good luck!

[Pokey]

You sound like you know what you're doing at the poker tables in general, so let me give you a few NL-cash-specific pieces of advice that may prove valuable to you:

1. "20% of my bankroll" is WAY too much money to have on the table at any given time. A good rule of thumb for no-limit is that you should have 20+ BUYINS for the level you're playing. That means you shouldn't be putting more than 5% of your bankroll into play at any given time. Many of us prefer to have more bankroll than this to ensure we can weather bad downswings; especially at higher stakes, players have been known to experience downswings of 20 or more buyins before shaking free from the pain.

2. You may be moving up entirely too fast if you play this way. Instead of playing where you have 20% of your bankroll in play, convince yourself to play xxxxx hands before "graduating" to the next level. If you're feeling underchallenged, make it something small like 5,000 hands before moving up a level. If you're learning things and gaining knowledge, 10,000 or even 20,000 hands before moving up would not be at all unreasonable. Not only does this build your bankroll sufficiently, but it also lets your skill catch up with your cashbox -- most winning players find that their bankroll grows faster than their skill level. (I have found that a reasonable rate of advance happens when you cash out all bonus/rb money plus half of your winnings; at that rate, when your bankroll can tolerate a higher level you should be just about ready to play it.)

3. As a tournament player you will be overly aggressive. Learn to lay down potentially winning hands and learn to "risk it all" less frequently. You'll usually be about 100 BBs deep, which virtually never happens in online tournament play (and almost never happens even in live tournaments). It will take time to get used to deep-stacked poker, and much of that will involve not getting yourself into trouble with potentially weak hands like TPTK. Don't get me wrong -- aggression is STILL the key to winning poker, but too much aggression and players can adjust against you. If you find yourself winning most of the hands you play and still losing money, you know you're overly aggressive.

[VayaConDios]

Honestly, I only clicked on this thread in the hopes that you'd returned to your Shakira avatar. But good luck with your quest, and listen to Pokey.

[Sheetah]

20% is way too much. If you feel like gamb00ling as fast as possible (and avoid painfully slow 20BI+ rule) I suggest a little bit of science: search these forums and/or Goolge for 'Kelly criterion'

[CrustyFace]

I graduated from 5nl a short while ago after building my roll to $200. I'm now at about $340 cruising through 10nl.

5nl is all about the cbet as you said, there are so many limp/fold players that you cant help but snatch lots of small pots.

10nl is much the same but you get more people calling your raises so you often have to be careful but be aggro on the turn too. I have adopted a T/lag style where i find that anyone with a decent hand will overplay back at me making the decision that much more obvious.

My advice to you is be prepared to sit a bit tighter on the more regular occasion that you find a table full of callers and nail them with sets. Also, get your chips in when you think you have the advantage. All-in-all its just a bit more loose than 5nl but equally easy to beat.

[kaz2107]

awsome to have u in unl. i <3 ur posts in sttf. if u want some cash games advice i can help u out up to 1/2nl so if u want u can im me. my aim is same as 2p2 name. hope tha challenge goes well.

[SuitedSixes]

Gelford: It is my experience when someone warns you "no offence" they are being offensive, with that in mind I will drop this quest because I care what you think.

Pokey: Thanks for the advice, your threads have been referred to me by many players as a good framework. With that said, Stars is not my main site so this money is fun money that won't hurt me to lose. I enjoy the challenge of this, but thanks for the advice. I particularly need to begin thinking as a cash game player and not a tournament player, solid advice.

Kaz: Thanks I'll hit you up some time.

Update:

Ok, I blew through the two Stars $10NL levels (.02/.05 and .05/.10) in 735 hands. The thing that amazed me about all of this so far is how much I enjoy just playing poker and thinking about the game. Being a multitabler has taken alot of the thinking out for me, so it has been refreshing to play one table and think about the table, my opponents, and what they think of me.

Things I paid particular attention to:
I have never really singled out individuals before other than to know that they're horrible. On one particular table, I overbet the river representing a flush draw. I was called by third pair. I had position on this player and made a conscious effort to be in as many hands with him as possible. After several minutes, I felted him with the nut flush against pocket sixes.

It has been rewarding to have a particular plan against specific opponents and execute that plan.

Things I'm bad at:
Playing against short-stacks. A couple of years ago, I probably played over 450,000 hands of short stack, so you'd think I know how to play against them, but I just don't ever give them credit for a hand. It seems there are two types of players; those who target short stacks, and those who avoid them. I need to become the latter.

STATS:
$55.50 won
59.42BB/100

VP$P: 30.34
PFR%: 18.10
AF: 3.09

Interesting fact: I am showing a profit from both of the blinds.

Off to the $25 tables!

[pmiranda.pt]

Pokey,

I'm just following your rule of thumb.
I just started playing NL (from the bottom, at NL5) after 6 months at FL successfully with a 3.5BB/100 in about 30K hands.

It was difficult to make the change, but I manage to overcome my FL "bad" habits of calling last (all-in) bets on the river with apparently best hands.
I'm now with 8K hands and 1.3BB/100 , my question is if there should be any value of BB/100 achieved before going up on this micro stakes.

Thanks