Visiting Europe for a month this summer

TheMetetron · #1 02-03-2007, 04:26 PM

So it is a possibility that I made a similar thread to this before in OOT, but I can't seem to find it. Regardless, my plans are getting a lot more concrete and I am going to be purchasing airfare and booking hostels in the next week so I figure I'd get some last minute advice on that. Also, I need to start planning the more specific things I am going to be doing in each city.

As some background, this is a trip I am going to be taking with my brother who is 25 (turning 26 while we are in Paris) who has a normal 9-5 job. Hence, this will not be the mega-baller version of Europe, but rather the normal college student version where you stay in hostels. He got a month of paid time off from his work so we could do this, I know we don't have a ton of time, but he'd like to hit the highlights and enjoy as much as he can. Also, don't suggest Eastern Europe. We are pretty much staying in Western Europe for this trip. A later trip of Eastern Europe is not out of the question but that isn't the point of this trip.

You will notice we are mostly flying from city to city. This is pretty much how it is going to be after a lot of debate back and forth. Cheap and quick are the priorities here and taking a train is both more expensive and slower in most instances. In most places, we will be spending 3 days; the exceptions are 4 days in London, 4 days in Paris, and only 2 days in Milan. I will be leaving from Buenos Aires, he will be leaving from San Francisco. We will be meeting up in London.

Here is the tenative schedule:

Sat 7/21 - Thu 7/26: London, United Kingdom

Flights: He is going from San Francisco to London Heathrow on Air Canada with a stopover in Montreal. The flight cost is $1121 roundtrip. He arrives in LHR at 10:15 AM. I am going from Buenos Aires to Amsterdam on Iberia with a stopover in Madrid for $1508 roundtrip. This flight arrives in Amsterdam at 11:15 AM and I will then be taking an EasyJet flight from Amsterdam to London Luton for $53 that will arrive in London at 1:50 PM. I am open for any suggestions on how to get to London cheaper. I am having my flight going roundtrip to Amsterdam because that is the last city we will be visiting. Changing this to London is also doable. It should be noted all of our flights leave on the 21st, but we don't arrive in London until the morning/afternoon of the 22nd.

Hostel: We will be staying at The Generator for 4 nights at a cost of $25/pp/night. It is rated 79% on Hostelbookers and seems to have a good location. Bed linen and towels are included. It has free continental breakfast daily and internet (can't tell if it's free or pay).

Thu 7/26 - Sun 7/29: Madrid, Spain

Flight: London Gatwick to Madrid departing at 7:40 AM and arriving at 11:10 AM on EasyJet. Cost is $99/pp. I should mention we decided to take the early flight whenever possible to maximize our usable time in each city. I'm really upset because this flight used to be much cheaper, but appears to have gone up quite a bit lately. Oh well.

Hostel: We will be staying at Mad Hostel for 3 nights at a cost of $21/pp/night. It is rated 85% on Hostelbookers and like all of my other picks appears to have a good location (as much as I can tell having never been to Madrid). Linens and breakfast are included in the price. Free internet and wifi included here.

Sun 7/29 - Thu 8/02: Paris, France

Flight: We are going from Madrid to Paris Orly on EasyJet departing at 4:40 PM and arriving at 6:40 PM. The cost is $53/pp. I couldn't find anything reasonably priced for earlier in the day or we would have done that.

Hostel: I am really looking for suggestions here. I can't seem to find anything I like too much. Right now the plan is to stay at Village Hostel which got an 80% at Hostelbookers for $29/pp/night. The price includes breakfast. I'm sort of iffy about the location here. It doesn't appear to be anywhere near the center, but is on a metro line. Also, there is a decent chance I don't stay at a hostel while in Paris and instead try to crash at a friend's place.

Thu 8/02 - Sun 8/05: Copenhagen, Denmark

Flight: Paris, Charles de Gaulle to Copenhagen on Sterling Ticket leaving at 10:05 AM and arriving at 12:00 PM. The cost is $78/pp.

Hostel: I can also use some help here The best I've come up with is Hotel Løven. It has a good location, but is pricy at $47/night/pp. It is actually one of the cheaper options. I am also considering this place which I guess is just some lady's house that she rents rooms out of on the outskirts of Copenhagen. It would require taking a train into the city and depending on the cost of that and if the lady cares what time we return, I may go this route. It'd be sort of nice for my brother to see some of the more small-town Danish lifestyle that I've had a chance to experience. I am up for any suggestions on both Copenhagen and Paris as I feel pretty lost.

Sun 8/05 - Wed 08/08: Berlin, Germany

Flight: Copenhagen to Berlin Schoenefeld on Easy Jet leaving at 9:25 PM and arriving at 10:25 PM at a cost of $37/pp.

Hostel: We will be staying at The Generator which is the same Hostel that we will be staying at in London. It is $18/pp/night and includes breakfast, bed linens, and towels.

Wed 08/08 - Sat 08/11: Rome, Italy

Flight: Berlin Schoenefeld to Rome Ciampino on Easy Jet leaving at 7:05 AM and arriving at 9:10 AM at a cost of $53/pp.

Hostel: We will be staying at Alessandro Downtown at a cost of $36/pp/night. It is centrally located and rated an 85% on Hostelbookers.

Sat 08/11 - Mon 08/13: Milan, Italy

Train: Oh my god, a train ride! It's the end of the world! Yes, we will be taking one train ride from Rome to Milan. Our train leaves Rome at 9:30 AM and arrives in Milan at 2:00 PM. The cost is $66 for a 2nd class ticket.

Hostel: The choice at the moment is Hostel Piero Rotta, but I am open for suggestions. The hostel is $25/pp/night and includes breakfast. It is a bit out of the way and apparently the walk between the hostel and the metro has hookers lining it. Also, seen some noise complaints. I'm torn here. The other one I would stay at is over twice the price but obviously better. Saving $50+ is probably somewhat meaningful to my brother though.

Mon 8/13 - Thu 8/16: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Flights: We will be arriving on the wonderful world of Easy Jet (I just realized all of our flights except for one within Europe are on EasyJet). Our flight leaves Milan Malpensa at 6:45 AM (ouch!) and arrives in Amsterdam at 8:40 AM. I have a flight out of Amsterdam on the 16th at night and my brother has some ridiculous notion of taking a ferry back to London and leaving from there on the 17th (some weird obsession with crossing the English Channel).

Hostel: We will be staying at The Bulldog at a cost of $38/pp/night. It is rated over 90% on Hostelbookers so I have no questions that it will be a good choice. Includes linen with a good location.

Total Transportation Cost Within Europe: $442 (not including public transit within each city)

Total Hostel Cost: $746 for 25 nights

I am looking for feedback regarding the itinerary in general (but don't stray too far or start recommending Prague), as well as the hostels in Milan, Copenhagen, and Paris. Also, I would like to see some people recommend things to do/see in each city, especially things that can't be missed. Any good recommendations on restaurants, bars, discos, museums, etc in any of the cities is of course welcome.

As time goes on, I will add information regarding the public transportation in each city as well as my list of restaurants to eat at and places to go / things to do. I have only been to Copenhagen and Amsterdam out of the cities we are visiting and in Copenhagen I had a Danish guide so I remember nothing and I only visited Amsterdam very briefly during long layovers.

I will hopefully by July speak semi-fluent Spanish so we won't have any issues in Spain with language. London obviously not going to be an issue either. Amsterdam and Copenhagen both have large percentage of their populations that can speak English as well. I'm a little curious about how much trouble we will have in Italy, Germany, and France though. Any thoughts/opinions on this?

That's it for now as it has taken me forever to type thing whole thing out. I look forward to your comments, suggestions, and criticisms. I hope this thread proves useful by the time it is all said and done. Of course a trip report on this whole thing will be done after I return to BsAs.

adsman · #2 02-03-2007, 04:42 PM

Met,

I'll just give you advice on the Italy sector. Milan in August is unbearable. The city empties at this time and is left to any visitor foolish enough to wander in. It is not just the heat but the humidity. I've lived in the tropics and I was stunned at how horrible Milan is at this time. It's also not that great a city, compared to the ones that you're visiting. I think you can do much better here.

Your entire trip is cities. Why not take that weekend in Italy to get out into the countryside? Instead of hitting Milan you could go a bit further North to Lake Como or Lake Garda over towards Verona. The Alps are the place to be in Summer and the nightlife on Garda Lake is sensational.

If you're really stuck on Milan I'll ring a couple of mates who live there and ask what's good to do at that time. English is fairly common in Rome and Venice but that's about it.

kipin · #3 02-03-2007, 05:03 PM

Your schedule is way to strict.

There is no way you will want to follow that schedule when you get there. What I would do if I were you is come up with a list of cities you really want to get to, and just make it a point to get there. Or have a general idea of the areas you want to travel in and let the wind take you along.

As for taking trains vs flying, in my experience, trains are a lot better if you are traveling between countries that border each other. I'm not sure how much European travel experience you have but the cheap carriers in Europe advertise as flying into Paris, or Oslo, or Frankfurt but in actuality they fly into a neighboring city that will be like 1.5 hours outside of the city so then you have to pay another 20 euros to be bussed from the outskirt city to the main city.

The eurail pass (http://www.eurail.com/) Allows a lot of flexibility and works really well in my experience.

ahnuld · #4 02-03-2007, 05:05 PM

skip milan.

eurail is fine, but im not sure if its cheaper anymore. Flights seem to be the new way to do europe, but I trained around last summer and it was fine. Also, try to go to barcelona if at all possible, definitely worth it.

fish2plus2 · #5 02-03-2007, 05:13 PM

Met did this thread already and he said they wouldnt have enough time for trains.

TheMetetron · #6 02-03-2007, 05:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Met did this thread already and he said they wouldnt have enough time for trains.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I remember this discussion coming up. Basically, flying is much cheaper and as you can see the schedule is packed. No time for overnight trains and the like.

This decision has already been made so I'd more like to focus on individual cities as well as the hostels I need help picking.

TheMetetron · #7 02-03-2007, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Met,

I'll just give you advice on the Italy sector. Milan in August is unbearable. The city empties at this time and is left to any visitor foolish enough to wander in. It is not just the heat but the humidity. I've lived in the tropics and I was stunned at how horrible Milan is at this time. It's also not that great a city, compared to the ones that you're visiting. I think you can do much better here.

Your entire trip is cities. Why not take that weekend in Italy to get out into the countryside? Instead of hitting Milan you could go a bit further North to Lake Como or Lake Garda over towards Verona. The Alps are the place to be in Summer and the nightlife on Garda Lake is sensational.

If you're really stuck on Milan I'll ring a couple of mates who live there and ask what's good to do at that time. English is fairly common in Rome and Venice but that's about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the Milan information. The only reason we were going there was because the flights are much cheaper from Milan to Amsterdam then from Rome to Amsterdam. Also, my brother wanted to take a train at some point so it seemed like a decent way to see the Italian countryside.

I am definitely not opposed to cutting Milan down to just one night while in-transit or cutting it out all together. I'm game for any other recommendations you may have instead, but it needs to be fairly easy to fly from wherever you suggest to Amsterdam.

RJT · #8 02-04-2007, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Met,

I'll just give you advice on the Italy sector. Milan in August is unbearable. The city empties at this time and is left to any visitor foolish enough to wander in. It is not just the heat but the humidity. I've lived in the tropics and I was stunned at how horrible Milan is at this time. It's also not that great a city, compared to the ones that you're visiting. I think you can do much better here.

Your entire trip is cities. Why not take that weekend in Italy to get out into the countryside? Instead of hitting Milan you could go a bit further North to Lake Como or Lake Garda over towards Verona. The Alps are the place to be in Summer and the nightlife on Garda Lake is sensational.

If you're really stuck on Milan I'll ring a couple of mates who live there and ask what's good to do at that time. English is fairly common in Rome and Venice but that's about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Adsman is 100% correct about Milan. Go in and get out. Perhaps, the Italian Riviera. Como or Garda are good ideas too. Day trip to Switzerland maybe.

At any rate - before you board the train in Rome, in addition to your ticket I suggest you get a reserved seat - when you buy a train ticket in Europe you are usually only buying a place on board, not a specific seat. For a nominal fee you can get a reserved seat. This way you are guaranteed 1) a seat and 2) seat near your brother. Especially 2nd class - gets really crowded. Theoretically you could end up standing in the aisle from Rome to Milan if you don’t have a reserved seat.

Before you leave Rome - buy some bread, cheese, wine, bottled water, and salami (or similar) to enjoy on your day trip to Milan. If you have time in Rome you can get this at the out door market, Campo de Fiori, which is an event in itself.

Rome - don’t leave without seeing the Pantheon. I could go on about Rome, let me know how specific you want to get. e.g. Best pizza is in Trastevere district.

TheMetetron · #9 02-04-2007, 06:25 PM

RJT,

Get as specific as you want about Rome. I'd love to hear anything you have to offer.

I'd like to grab some sort of picnic lunch and just sit out in an awesome park there... I'm sure one must exist. Best way to go about doing this?

Also, can you get indepth about the Vatican (so touristy, I know). How much time does it take to see, what can you do there, how does one go about attending mass there, etc?

RJT · #10 02-04-2007, 08:35 PM

I think audiences with the Pope (actually that means a seat in a large auditorium - or outside in the square sometimes - to hear him speak) are usually conduct on Wednesdays. In the summer, I am not sure of the schedule as he is not always in town then. If this is something that you are interested in, let me know and I will try to get you tickets. I know a few people in Rome.

Regarding a picnic lunch - the perfect spot is the Borghese Gardens. Which is not far from the Spanish Steps which is a must see anyway. In the Borghese park is a great museum (can’t recall the name right now - but I’ll check my tour book) with a few noteworthy items - a few Bernini sculptures in particular. Regarding the meal itself - I’d go with the bread/cheese/salami/wine thing - but if you want a box lunch you should be able to do that easily. If you were staying at a pensione or hotel they could hook you up. But, just ask at the hostel or a nearby café - that shouldn’t be very hard to arrange. There are quite a few cafeteria type places near where you are staying (it looks like you are near the train station - which, btw isn’t the safest area - but don’t worry, Rome is not at all dangerous. Pick pockets are about as bad as it gets ) they’ll make you a box lunch.

You will have to check the time that the Vatican museum is open. You will want to see the Sistine Chapel. You must get there very early - ahead of time. Especially in the summer - the most crowded time of the year. The lines will be long and you can get shut out - it might close by noon, I can’t recall exactly. But the times are messed up. Once you find out where to go and when - you will see that the museum itself is huge. But, there is a direct route to the Chapel. Along the way, you will still see some of the treasures of the museum.

Make sure you wear long pants and no tank type things when you go to the Vatican, otherwise you will have trouble (might not get in) seeing the Basilica (Church) itself. Inside the church there are many side chapels. Here you can attend mass, no problem. You will have to find out when one is scheduled. I don’t have a calendar, but if you want to do Sunday Mass at the main Altar, I’ll have to find out more about that. Again, I have friends who are priests in Rome, so they can give me details. Tomorrow, I’ll check the calendar and see what days you are in Rome then I’ll send off some e-mails.

Buses are the cheapest way to get around in Rome. When I was a student there we often just got on and off the bus at will. Hardly ever bought a ticket. Tickets are cheap though, so handle that as you are most comfortable. Taxis are cheap, btw. Rome is a great city to walk around. You can cover a lot of territory by walking.

The thing to keep in mind when you are on a crowded bus - pick pockets are at their best. They will reach in your pocket without you realizing it. The other thing to be aware of are the gypsies. They come up to you - mostly at tourist spots, like the Roman Forum - carrying babies or a piece of cardboard to distract you. Once they see you are looking at the cardboard sign, they reach under the cardboard and pick your pocket. They are quick, so be alert. You will see a bunch of them approach you begging - just scream at them to get away (don’t be bashful about this) say it any language. They will leave you alone as long as you let them know you aren’t going to take any …

One of the best things to do in Rome is just to get a seat in a café along a piazza or busy street and just watch the people. Italians are a good looking bunch (men and women) and dress sharply, too. Never a dull moment in the Eternal City. Coffee lover - go to Tasso D’Oro near the Patheon. They pump out the coffee all day long.

This week I’ll look over some stuff I have at my office. I have one or two places in mind for great pizza in Trastevere, which is a pretty young, hip area anyway. And there is a place I love to hit for the grilled lamb and roasted potatoes -kind of touristy, but great food.

Oh yeah, make sure you take the express train to Milan. Or at least a semi-direct one. They have trains that stop in a zillion town on the way. You don’t want to go that way - wouldn’t really be a bad trip, just - you get the idea.

I'll get back to you.