60-120 hand

[HOWMANY]

I'd 4bet preflop because people have got to understand that it's your button and that means you're going to keep raising because you can. Flop when she checks my standard thing here is to actually say "okay" when I check behind because her play is so retarded. Then she'll try to bet/3bet the turn and we can 4bet when we get lucky against her AA. Unfortunately she has caught up to you on the river so bet and tell yourself she has ATs when you call the c/r.

As played call the c/r and still tell yourself she has ATs.

Just read your last response and it scared me. DON'T CHECK THE RIVER

[tessarji]

I think bet/call is the standard play.

I think what Andy is trying to get at was that she checked quickly on the river. This is odd because she thus far has represented an overpair or A high flush draw, and either way the A makes a difference - it turned a marginal hand into a decent one, or made a pretty good one a lot worse.

Her gut reaction of instant checking is a lot like the instinctive coiling of a snake planning to strike. It's not as common for her to rapidly check if she had KK, AKs, ATs, or indeed just about anything but AA. With all of the other hands an A on the river is cause for at least momentary reconsideration.

[surfdoc]

I realize you had the best underpair. If that matters at this point then I will be amazed. Here is the thing that a few people mentioned but I will try and elaborate. At this limit most players have some reasonable understanding of how to play in shorthanded pots. One of the main reasons for 3 betting out of the BB against a button opener is to take the initiative away since so many flops will miss you both. Your K8s or whatever is just forced to hate itself when the flop is QJ4 or A56 or 29T. Her checking the flop gives up all that fold equity and allows you to regain some control or take free cards. Why would she let you do that? The answer is simple: she doesn't care and has a strong holding and wants to play tricky.

I wish I could sort through 1 million or so shorthanded hands I have played in my database and assign an exact value for the 3 bet pre/check the flop line but I can't so we will have to estimate. The likelihood that this is top pair or better is so high that I think checking behind like HOWMANY said could very well be right. If she is nutty enough to play AK like this then you should probably have been able to tell us that initially. When you get checkraised on the flop you are crushed so often that I think you have an absolutely terrible spot to go to war.

BTW, Josh's AndyFox love is universal. From one parent to another I think you know that the time to be concerned is when the reprimands stop. Then you know we no longer care.

[andyfox]

Can/should I actually give her a free card on the flop with my vulnerable pair of 9s?

[andyfox]

Good stuff, from start to finish. Thanks.

[andyfox]

So the river is an Ace and she checks quickly. I thought for about three seconds. I concluded that with all those chips already in the pot she would likely bet out and that, imaginative or not, she wouldn't check-raise me without a set of aces here, so I could bet and comfortably--or at least not uncomfortably--fold to a check-raise. And that she was possibly disgusted enough with my set of tens (in her mind) to call the river with her kings or queens anyway; the call of the raise in rhythm on the turn indicated to me that she was pot-committed at that point. I bet and she called quickly but unenthusiastically. She shook her head in disgust when I showed and flashed her pocket kings.

As many have pointed out, 4-betting pre-flop has merit, and I put in as many as six bets too many on the flop. That not one person could find a defense of my flop play is, of course, telling. The more interesting discussion might be whether to check the flop or bet when she checks, good points being raised by both Surfdoc and HowMany on that issue.

[gaming_mouse]

Andy,

By the way, I liked the quote so much that I googled for it, and it comes up as a David Duchovny quote.... which doesn't seem right. Is he quoting someone else?

[andyfox]

Well, his father was a writer and he has a masters in English Literature from Yale. So I believe it is indeed his.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, his father was a writer and he has a masters in English Literature from Yale. So I believe it is indeed his.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya i found a page with some other quotes. he is clearly very thoughtful and intelligent.