Are teachers really underpaid?

[Blarg]

At least half of anything said about unions these days, and more like 90% on these forums, is overhyped baloney that probably came from Rush Limbaugh or something similarly clueless.

[zephed]

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A lot of our patting ourselves on the backs about the accomplishments of some schools and the difficulties of others is far from being caused by unions, and instead has a lot to do with the environment the children and their parents live in being directly transferable to the quality of the school, as it's local tax bases that provide such a large part of a school's funding. In this way we reward and punish children as well as their parents for being rich or poor.

And if we blame anyone for the results, it's never ourselves.

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Parents definitely have a huge impact on the quality of a child's education. My fiancee teaches HS math in Hawthorne, CA. It's a poor neighborhood with many immigrants (some probably illegal). The parents of the F students typically fail to get involved in their kid's education, will not discipline their children for poor grades, don't make them do homework and don't care if they fail to attend classes. There's only so much a teacher can do with these kids.

Either they are there to learn or they're there to pass time until they drop out. The system (schools, gov't, teachers) is never going to change these things.

[The DaveR]

If you're asking whether everyone would be better off by paying teachers less, probably not. If I could make what I make now by teaching, I'd do it.

[krishan]

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Thoughts?

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Teaching as a career is incredibly complex and requires far more thought/analysis to come up with good solutions.

Krishan

[dustyn]

The problem with teaching is that it's basically a "dead end job" in that there's little opportunity for advancement, switching jobs without taking a huge paycut or doing anything other than teaching. Sure, you can become a principal, but those slots are fairly limited relative to the large pool of teachers.

At least in business, most people can switch roles to some degree without much career ruin, but in teaching, that is less possible. And teachers work a lot; just because they don't work the standard 8 hour day, 5 days a week and 48 weeks a year doesn't mean they don't work just as hard as someone with "normal business hours." Their work happens to be more concentrated during certain times of the year. At best they may work slightly less than an "average" white collar professional.

But back to the question, I think it varies. In some states/cities their pay is "ok/decent." In other areas, it's simply terrible. But teachers in SF are paid terribly relative to what other jobs for people with similar levels of education are paying. In Scranton, PA, a small city that is very cheap and in a state that pays teachers pretty well, a teachers salary is pretty solid. In general though, I think teachers are paid rather poorly considering how inflexible their career is and how little opportunity for advancement they have relative to other professions that require similar education levels to teaching. Still, I think it's important to consider geography when evaluating teacher pay. It makes a big difference.

[Paluka]

I didn't have time to read the thread, but I think it is almost certainly true that good teachers are underpaid, and bad teachers are overpaid. The lack of any sort of compensation based on quality of performance is a huge problem.

[Piper Tim]

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No, they aren't underpaid. They work wayyy less than many other professions and still get close to the same pay.

Many teachers have 2nd jobs as well since they only work 2/3 of the year. One guy I know is 2 years out of college, makes like $40k+ teaching, bartends in the summer and makes another $15k, and drives an escalade. Gets done work at 3 each day.

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It says a lot when he makes more/hour bartending than he does teaching, don't you think? And he obviously teaches in a district that pays well (relatively).

You also seem to be making the assumption that teachers are done once school is out. Teachers never grade papers? Prepare for class the next day? Volunteer for after-school activities? Stay late to help struggling students? Maybe not your oh-so-hip wanna-be gansta buddy.

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Come on. Other professions take work home as well, and I don't want to hear that teachers have a back-breaking amount of work to do outside of the school building. They have plenty of time to grade papers and do class prep DURING school hours, including silent study halls, time in between classes, and while their students are taking tests.



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LOL!!!

You might want to spend some time teaching before making this bogus claim. Silent study halls? Those are few and far between, if not nonexistent. During tests=cheating and is still not enough time. Try grading 120 essays on the impact of Lincoln's assassination on reconstruction in one period. You might be able to do it- if you're one of the [censored] teachers.

Planning time- sure if you don't have to actually plan or work on IEPs, or have a meeting. What time inbetween classes? Five minutes for middle school, maybe 7 at high school and none at elementary school. Sure wouldn't want to use that time to get the next class ready. Okay, maybe after or before school- but then you have to meet with parents, faculty meetings, and the list goes on. How about lunch? There's a good 30 minutes- unless you don't really get 30 minutes. Maybe during your bathroom breaks (what are those).

Most teacher I know work way more than 40hrs. a week. In fact a lot are there are 7am and don't leave until 6:00 or 7:00 that night, still take home papers, and work at least one day on the weekend. The amazing thing is they return- even though many could get better paying jobs elsewhere- despite the lack of respect from the public and many of their clients.

I get paid well, but certainly not commensurate with my level of education.

It's pretty clear you have no real idea what teachers do or how they spend their time.

[Lottery Larry]

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It's pretty clear you have no real idea what teachers do or how they spend their time.

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I have teachers in my family and this post reflects their situation somewhat.

OP, are you basing your judgements on bad teachers or good teachers that you KNOW? Otherwise, you're assuming a lot.

[Boris]

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I didn't have time to read the thread, but I think it is almost certainly true that good teachers are underpaid, and bad teachers are overpaid. The lack of any sort of compensation based on quality of performance is a huge problem.

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You make it sound like there is some sort of solution to the problem of a lack of merit based compensation for teachers. Right now I can't think of any good way to accurately judge a teacher's performance without monitoring the classroom for at least a week and reviewing the course syllabus and the amount and type of homework assignments. This sounds simple but in practice is quite difficult to implement. The idea, that there are millions of kids showing up to school everyday who are eager to learn but have to deal with stupid lazy teachers, is wrongheaded. This is the basically the argument that teacher bashers make. The reality, based on my experience, is that you really don't run into that many suck teachers until you get to grad school. I can count on one hand the number of bad teachers I had through undergrad studies.

[Rootabager]

" Gym teachers have it made"

Yeah I hope so, I have about 9 hours til graduation.

"I wish there were some way to make teaching compensation incentive-based, so that great teachers who are talented and hard-working make very good livings, but to say that teachers on the whole are underpaid is not as obvious an idea as people think."

In Kentucky we have rewards system. If your school does really well on test you do get extra money.

Thoughts?