|
|
|
|
#1
10-22-2007, 08:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
...is not that the universe is so easily explained without invoking a god (it isn't), it is that the existence (and proliferation) of these theistic religions is so easily explained without invoking a god.
^I haven't actually bothered to think about this yet...it just popped into my head while I was bored in class...and since I haven't spent much time in SMP as of late, you all get to hear it [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] discuss 
|
|
#2
10-22-2007, 11:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
I don't think it's damning at all. I think reflecting on the blind men and the elephant would help you see that. Just because the blind men aren't correctly describing what they are feeling doesn't mean there isn't an elephant.
|
|
#3
10-22-2007, 11:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it (which are almost innumerable and overwhelming), or arguing that its value justifies it. I would agree that truth and value are sometimes different things. I just don't think religion justifies itself. But the idea that an argument still needs to be made against religion, theism, etc is pretty laughable, and has been for at least a hundred years.
|
|
#4
10-23-2007, 10:21 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it (which are almost innumerable and overwhelming), or arguing that its value justifies it. I would agree that truth and value are sometimes different things. I just don't think religion justifies itself. But the idea that an argument still needs to be made against religion, theism, etc is pretty laughable, and has been for at least a hundred years. [/ QUOTE ] No. I say let religion stand on its own two feet. I'll never make the argument that religion is valuable thus it should be practiced. And until you explain your origination (tracing all the way back to the beginning of life as well as matter), then the debate is still very much open.
|
|
#5
10-23-2007, 09:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it… [/ QUOTE ] There is not argument against it, because there is no argument for it. Faith is not logic based any more than beauty or love are logic based.
|
|
#6
10-23-2007, 09:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it… [/ QUOTE ] There is not argument against it, because there is no argument for it. Faith is not logic based any more than beauty or love are logic based. [/ QUOTE ] This may be a good thread. I think I'll start it. I think you're at least partially wrong about love and beauty.
|
|
#7
10-23-2007, 10:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it… [/ QUOTE ] There is not argument against it, because there is no argument for it. Faith is not logic based any more than beauty or love are logic based. [/ QUOTE ] This may be a good thread. I think I'll start it. I think you're at least partially wrong about love and beauty. [/ QUOTE ] I’ll post this here, because I don’t want to muddy your new thread with religious stuff. If I am wrong about Beauty and Love (and I am not saying I am not), then Faith should be biologically based as you suggest B & L are. If this is the case then the atheists are really arguing against Biology when they argue with theists. Ironic. If you want to carry this to your new thread that is your call.
|
|
#8
10-23-2007, 09:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it… [/ QUOTE ] There is not argument against it, because there is no argument for it. Faith is not logic based any more than beauty or love are logic based. [/ QUOTE ] Religious Faith, love, beauty and horniness are things are states we experience built on emotional upwellings. All can be studied and explained/understood rationally. None are mysterious. We can argue against each of those, with ourselves in the final stages. The fact they manifest themselves from a non-rational base does not mean they can't be argued against rationally. luckyme
|
|
#9
10-23-2007, 11:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
There is no argument against it, because there is no argument for it. Faith is not logic-based any more than beauty or love are logic-based. [/ QUOTE ] OP: [ QUOTE ] ...is not that the universe is so easily explained without invoking a god (it isn't), it is that the existence (and proliferation) of these theistic religions is so easily explained without invoking a god. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely: You don't need logic to explain how a person can understand or appreciate beauty. Nor do you need logic to explain how a person can love. Nor do you need a god. Neither do you need a god to explain how a person could believe in gods/God. Indeed, as the OP intimates, evidence abounds regarding human beings' propensity to deify all kinds of things.
|
|
#10
10-24-2007, 01:40 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: In the case against religious theism, what is so damning...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There is no longer a "case against religious theism", it is over. The people believing in religion/god are either choosing to ignore the arguments against it… [/ QUOTE ] There is not argument against it, because there is no argument for it. Faith is not logic based any more than beauty or love are logic based. [/ QUOTE ] A long time ago BluffThis wrote that Catholics can accept the idea that an objective examination of the evidence is maybe not enough to lead someone who is an impartial, expert evidence evaluator, to come to the conclusion that the Catholic God is highly likely to be the true one. But many other Christians on this forum disagree with that stance. They maintain that a logical examination of the evidence is by itself enough to lead a rational person to the conclusion that there is not only God, but that it is a fairly specific type of Christian God. It is easy for Catholics to disagree with them because Catholics allow for the possibility for non Christians to go to heaven. But when you don't allow for that possibility you are pretty muched forced to reject the notion that objective evaluation of the evidence leads you to smaller than 50-50 chance of the truth of Christianity. Because that would mean that God would be condemning objective truth seekers with no ulterior motives. The bottom line is that people like txaq, Not Ready, and Splendour, do in fact think there beliefs are quite logical.
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
