50nl FTP - Reraised pot, but he checks behind flop?

[Freelancer]

Some reasons why I limp;
1) Your always OOP, this is a BIG downside
2) If you limp you have direct odds to hit your set
3) Your usually in trouble if anybody decides to call preflop.

Reasons to raise;
1) You believe that its very likely to take it down preflop because villain has a tendency to limp/fold.
2) You think that there's a high chance villain will play fit or fold with better small PP's (big+).


Basically I need a decent read to raise here and my default is to limp.

Did I miss anything?

[RunDownHouse]

You know what's really sweet? Making statements like, "You should raise 22 from the SB against a whole table full of limps," and then responding to skepticism with one-word answers.

The only thing easier than poker is posting about poker!

[Zagga]

I am with the limp small pp's from the SB if there is at least 1 raiser camp here. You will never have a good hand if you don't hit (usually) and will always be OOP.

As for this hand. I would pump $7, if he pushes for his last $8 more I might even call.

[prodonkey]

I don't have any problem raising pp's from utg-button.. but after a bunch of limpers I'm not raising them from the blinds unless it's something like 7's+ The odds you take the pot down preflop are not all that great.. one limper like in this hand.. I don't think it's really going to matter much long term whether you raise or not. I just feel that if there's say 3 limpers and you pop it to 3.50 from the blinds.. and end up with 2 callers and don't hit your set.. do you c-bet?

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
Some reasons why I limp;
1) Your always OOP, this is a BIG downside
2) If you limp you have direct odds to hit your set
3) Your usually in trouble if anybody decides to call preflop.

Reasons to raise;
1) You believe that its very likely to take it down preflop because villain has a tendency to limp/fold.
2) You think that there's a high chance villain will play fit or fold with better small PP's (big+).


Basically I need a decent read to raise here and my default is to limp.

Did I miss anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, building the pot to get full stacks in when you hit a set.

dont worry though, that's only 99% of the reason why this is a raise preflop

and being OOP is bad when you have a hand that isnt retardedly simple to play postflop.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some reasons why I limp;
1) Your always OOP, this is a BIG downside
2) If you limp you have direct odds to hit your set
3) Your usually in trouble if anybody decides to call preflop.

Reasons to raise;
1) You believe that its very likely to take it down preflop because villain has a tendency to limp/fold.
2) You think that there's a high chance villain will play fit or fold with better small PP's (big+).


Basically I need a decent read to raise here and my default is to limp.

Did I miss anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, building the pot to get full stacks in when you hit a set.

dont worry though, that's only 99% of the reason why this is a raise preflop

and being OOP is bad when you have a hand that isnt retardedly simple to play postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm in the "raise any pp ay position" camp.

However with a table full of limpers sometimes I limp as well - sometimes I minraise to build a nice pot - it depends how big the pot is when the action gets to me.

If you raise 4BB preflop and get one caller the pot is 8BB on the flop - if you're in the SB and 3 people limped in the pot is 5BB anyway and you got implied odds coming out of your ears. If the tables passive you can often minraise get 4 callers and build a 10BB pot which is very tasty with any pp. With no reads and a table full of limpers tho my default is to overlimp.

Being OOP is bad for any hand - yes pp's are simple to play postflop - either you flop a set or you c/f (depends how many players there are post) but it's VERY difficult to get good value from a good hand when you are OOP cos when you bet you giveaway the fact that you have a hand.

if you raise preflop into limpers and get 2 callers and whiff the flop my default is to c/f with teeny pairs - or sometimes cbet if the board isn't broadway and I think the villains will fold often if they've missed. I need reads to CB basically - and more often than not when the flop is multiway and I have bottom pair or worse I just c/f.

[Genz]

Big pairs can check behind on this flop for pot control and inducing bluffs. And they might try to get tricky. Because other than the flushdraw, this board is pretty dry. I might stab here. But I'm completely done with the hand if villain doesn't fold.

About preflop: the raise is ok. It's certainly not a must since many people get married to their pps on boards like this because they put their calling opponents on whiffed overs all the time. If you don't feel stupid to c/f your hand if you don't hit your set or if your cbet is called, it is certainly ok.
I don't like the call of his reraise though. You are 8:1 to hit your set. You get about 3:1 direct odds. So you have to take $12.50 off of him everytime you hit your set. That's a pretty narrow margin if he has $15 left behind and is unknown.

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some reasons why I limp;
1) Your always OOP, this is a BIG downside
2) If you limp you have direct odds to hit your set
3) Your usually in trouble if anybody decides to call preflop.

Reasons to raise;
1) You believe that its very likely to take it down preflop because villain has a tendency to limp/fold.
2) You think that there's a high chance villain will play fit or fold with better small PP's (big+).


Basically I need a decent read to raise here and my default is to limp.

Did I miss anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, building the pot to get full stacks in when you hit a set.

dont worry though, that's only 99% of the reason why this is a raise preflop

and being OOP is bad when you have a hand that isnt retardedly simple to play postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Meh somehow I forgot that part, I'll edit it in.

Do you really think building a pot is a such a big plus?? I'd say that being OOP the entire hand when your almost certain you'd get called in atleast one spot is a much bigger disadvantage. Also being OOP with a simple hand to play doesn't mean that it negates the disadvantages of playing OOP (ie. cbetting becomes less profitable, harder to extract, villains have a bigger tendency to play back -I swear people love to call me IP even donkeys-)...

I often raise any PP from UTG-btn and I have a big tendency to raise whenever I play (23/20 stats or so) but completing with small PP's is something I recently changed. I just don't think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, I usually already have a image that I'm crazy agressive (meh) so if I raise from the blinds I always get atleast 1 caller who's not exactly a nice 'fit or fold' type of player. So it might be my image that makes this a bad idea to do because playing OOP against a villain thats after your blood with a marginal hand (most of the time) is a bad idea.

Now if you usually have a very nitty image I can see raising to take it down, but pot building should be a minor consideration not a major on IMO.



Edit; This doesn't mean I HATE raising, I just prefer completing.
Meh can't edit my last post anymore, so just imagine 'pot building' is included.

[rocco1999]

[ QUOTE ]
Not as likely but I think you'll often see people trying to get tricky. Its also definitely possible he's holding TT and thinks he should slow play his set.

I think you're putting yourself in a marginal situation at best and can find much better spots. JMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[Zaid_Ahmed]

Completing in the SB is absolutely fine and raising the correct opponents is absolutely fine. But if this is a raising spot then please raise to $3. Folding is not OK here.