EP Limp: 89s

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember once looking through Stoxtraders database to see how many times he open limped. Answer = 0.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair, stox doesn't play 5/10. I think that given the right table conditions, stox would def. open limp because it is optimal in some situations. If u watched his videos, he made some real passive, loose plays when he played down, granted these were all post-flop.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
I mentioned 'protecting pot equity' preflop, that's a synonym for betting for value (I agree this is somewhat unclear)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is a distinction between protecting and maximizing. Maybe it's just semantics.

When I think of "protecting pot equity," I think of those players that justify raising premium hands because they want to "limit the field" and "make sure no one can draw for cheap" and other such non-sense. I want everyone to call if i have an equity edge PF and I am raising to maximize the value of my hand, not to protect it. Subtle distinction and you may have meant maximize. Still, this hand is bad enough to warrant re-examining ur play and probably moving down. But do whatever you want.

[Flintoff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember once looking through Stoxtraders database to see how many times he open limped. Answer = 0.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair, stox doesn't play 5/10. I think that given the right table conditions, stox would def. open limp because it is optimal in some situations. If u watched his videos, he made some real passive, loose plays when he played down, granted these were all post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive watched all his videos and I have NEVER seen him limp in. 1-2 up to 50-100.

In which situations would it be optimal to limp in?

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember once looking through Stoxtraders database to see how many times he open limped. Answer = 0.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair, stox doesn't play 5/10. I think that given the right table conditions, stox would def. open limp because it is optimal in some situations. If u watched his videos, he made some real passive, loose plays when he played down, granted these were all post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive watched all his videos and I have NEVER seen him limp in. 1-2 up to 50-100.

In which situations would it be optimal to limp in?

[/ QUOTE ]

JTs/ QJs/ QTs/ 22-66 at real loose, passive tables UTG, 6 handed. I also occassionally will open-limp OTB with either two really, really loose blinds or one incredible maniac that I want to play as many pots as possible with, but I don't have a SD worthy hand (A/ K high/ pp).

[Flintoff]

If you think you have a postflop edge playing these hands, then why not raise? If the tables are that loose, get them all in for two bets!

I'd still be very happy to see you limp at my table UTG with all those hands.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think you have a postflop edge playing these hands, then why not raise? If the tables are that loose, get them all in for two bets!

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I believe my overall expectation is higher by limping. You should at least understand how this can be possible, even if you don't agree with the actual statement.

[ QUOTE ]

I'd still be very happy to see you limp at my table UTG with all those hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want me at your table.

[poisonxfree]

[ QUOTE ]

Because I believe my overall expectation is higher by limping. You should at least understand how this can be possible, even if you don't agree with the actual statement.


[/ QUOTE ]

I assume this is coming from these mostly being good multiway hands and you don't want to be forced to continue the initiative in bad spots if you are cold called for instance?

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Because I believe my overall expectation is higher by limping. You should at least understand how this can be possible, even if you don't agree with the actual statement.


[/ QUOTE ]

I assume this is coming from these mostly being good multiway hands and you don't want to be forced to continue the initiative in bad spots if you are cold called for instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, those are some of the reasons why i would open limp. The primary reason (under which ur suggestions sort of fit) is that our PF equity with these hands does not warrant raising, especially since we have little chance of winning w/o a SD. However, we can easily make up any PF deficit with post-flop expectation, especially against, passive, loose predictable players. So, when we limp, our overall EV for the hand is higher than raising.

I really don't open-limp that often, I just take offense when people say that u should never do this or always do that when it's very rarely so clear cut.

Also, flint was implying that we should always raise with any hand we're going to play. I won't even get into how wrong this is, but I assume he was partly-mostly joking.

[Flintoff]

[ QUOTE ]

I'd still be very happy to see you limp at my table UTG with all those hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want me at your table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grow up please....



And I was talking about open-raising. Not raise any hand you are going to play. I believe they are entirely different.