new more damning absolute evidence

[Dan Druff]

[ QUOTE ]
Too much speculation honestly Dan.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not too much speculation. We have a lot of info here. I just put it all together in what seems to be a very plausible story where every single piece we know manages to fit.

We'll never have the EXACT story unless AP finally comes clean, which at this point seems highly unlikely.

[Injection]

[ QUOTE ]
Great post Dan. It's stories like these that we should get out to the media. Who cares if it's speculative, it should get the ball rolling. A lot of posters have put in some awesome work to show with 100% certainty that there was cheating going on at Absolute Poker and that they are hiding a lot of information. It's now up to them to come clean.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why we can't have too much speculation floating around, the facts will get lost and there's far too much concrete [censored] that can't afford to be eroded by a whole lot of wild theories.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Great post Dan. It's stories like these that we should get out to the media. Who cares if it's speculative, it should get the ball rolling.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, this could be a very negative move.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this would be very negative for online poker, at least in the short term and maybe longer. The focus should be on getting AP to own up to the issue and identify those responsible.

[NNNNOOOOONAN]

i think that if stuff is let out before everything is ironed out and it gets to major media outlets, then it's proved that there are tons of wrongs or inconsistencies and what not, then things ARE all figured out correctly "we" might not be taken seriously the second time around.

[NLfool]

[ QUOTE ]



There is a myth that the cheating began after the update. This is not true. I saw cheating occur a few days BEFORE the update. I believe the only part the update has in this whole thing is the fact that it allowed this rogue programmer to go through the AP software and stumble onto the existence of account 363. Account 363 has clearly existed since the beginning. This was not a vulnerability brought on by any recent software change.

I also believe that, before greed took over, the guy behind this was more careful. Near the beginning of the whole thing, in mid-late August, he kept things more moderate. He lost some hands on purpose, and he never killed anyone heads up too badly. For example, GRAYCAT beat me for 6k heads up at 200-400, then quit the game and insulted me from the rail. Obviously he did this to keep things in moderation, not due to any fear of losing to me. This differs from what he did later, such as when he slammed STEREOFLAVAS for 28k in an hourlong September heads-up match. The POTRIPPER tournament was also executed highly carelessly, but again he was probably blinded by greed at this point.

I believe that the guy playing all accounts was one person. I also believe he had a second computer logged into superuser account 363. I think that the only time he invovled others was for chip-dumping. I am relatively certain that you will find SUPERCARDM55, REYMNALDO, and the other dump recipients with Costa Rican addresses, while the four accounts used to cheat all have U.S. addresses.

Also, keep in mind that the cheater simply needed to open account 363 at the right table on a second computer in order to see the hole cards. I am certain that POTRIPPER, GRAYCAT, STEAMROLLER, and DOUBLEDRAG were not special or superuser accounts, and were just like any other account on the system. Perhaps AP support simply looked at these accounts themselves and stupidly determined that no cheating went on. More likely, however, they know what happened and are covering it up.

[/ QUOTE ]


hey Dan I like your theory but I find it very very hard to believe that account 363 has been laying dormant all this time. It would be almost impossible for a programmer/s to resist the urge not use account #363.

To me it seems like yes someone stumbled across this and more than one person gained knowledge of 363. So the fight for usage of this account began and someone made it soooo blatant out of spite. I still can't understand how they can make it so blatant on the last hand of their biggest tournament when everyone is watching.

[Josem]

There have been many claims in the past that online poker is rigged.

The thing that sets this allegation apart is that everything here is supported by evidence and proof. I think it is important to maintain that.

[NNNNOOOOONAN]

[ QUOTE ]
There have been many claims in the past that online poker is rigged.

The thing that sets this allegation apart is that everything here is supported by evidence and proof. I think it is important to maintain that.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're referring to my post (completely unsure if you are or not) then, i completely agree, i just think that we should make sure we have 100% of what we can get put together before pushing it too hard.

if waco wouldn't have posted this stuff, and nat and chuddo put it together we wouldn't have NEAR the mountain of evidence as we do now. so why not just wait until it is all put together and packaged nicely like someone else suggested earlier.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you should note that the AP email account was not observing POTRIPPER's table. It was user 363 (with an MSN email) who was observing POTRIPPER's table.

But the AP email account and user 363 were both on the same IP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nat,

If #363 has been around since the beginning, and is highly unlikely to be registered to anyone, how is it that it has an MSN email address attached to it instead of an AP email?

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it appears that it's somehow assigned to AP by the KGC. So it has to have been an inside job, 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't the account have been hacked by someone not affiliated w/ AP?

[/ QUOTE ]
The email account? Or the AP account?

I kinda doubt that's what happened here. Especially since it seems unlikely that user 2-million something was the source of the holecards. I think the AP-related guy was POTRIPPER and he just made up a few new accounts to cheat on. User 363 would be the one that someone might gain something from hacking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm asking if it's possible the 363 account was hacked by someone not affiliated with AP.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, you should note that the AP email account was not observing POTRIPPER's table. It was user 363 (with an MSN email) who was observing POTRIPPER's table.

But the AP email account and user 363 were both on the same IP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nat,

If #363 has been around since the beginning, and is highly unlikely to be registered to anyone, how is it that it has an MSN email address attached to it instead of an AP email?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know. It could have been registered originally with an AP email or the person doing the cheating could have changed it to some anonymous email. I've done extensive searching of the email and I can't find anything. I also have other poker sites looking into the info and the emails don't appear to be registered with anyone else.