Question: Why does everyone get so upset about 'The Juice' In tourney?

CincyLady · #1 08-10-2007, 11:56 AM

I have to ask this, as I hear ppl get upset about this a lot, and have read in many threads, how some get really torked when they feel that too much 'juice' is being charged for a tourney.

I mean if you pay 100 bucks for a tourney, cash for anything above that, are you not making money? IMO, its like if you buy a lotto ticket for a buck, and win 1k, that's still more in a day than you'd make at most day jobs.

I've been a sweepstaker now for 35 years (since I was 14), and I've heard the same kind of comments from ppl about taxes. I've never understood it, because you are still making money. I like it (as a sweepstaker or a lotto player), when I have to pay taxes, because that means I won money, and all for either a buck (for the lottery), or the price of a stamp, envelope, and 3x5 paper or card.

Casino's and poker tour directors/companies are in it to make money, and I don't think we would do it for free (or for next to free), so why should they?

Can anyone explain it to me what the issue is why ppl get so upset about events that charge high 'juice' for them, when if you cash, many times you'll make more in a few days than you would in your day job?

gobboboy · #2 08-10-2007, 12:11 PM

If there is a poker tournament with a $1000 entry fee and $1000 rake, no one can win in the long run. Just because you cash once for a big amount does not mean you can profitably over the long run win a big amount playing those tournaments. The pros are the ones who complain about high rake, and that's because over the long run a 10% increase in rake is a ton of money out of their pocket.

shaundeeb · #3 08-10-2007, 12:11 PM

what's a sweepstaker?

gobboboy · #4 08-10-2007, 12:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what's a sweepstaker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone who failed statistics.

JP OSU · #5 08-10-2007, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what's a sweepstaker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone who failed statistics.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

tippy · #6 08-10-2007, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have to ask this, as I hear ppl get upset about this a lot, and have read in many threads, how some get really torked when they feel that too much 'juice' is being charged for a tourney.

I mean if you pay 100 bucks for a tourney, cash for anything above that, are you not making money? IMO, its like if you buy a lotto ticket for a buck, and win 1k, that's still more in a day than you'd make at most day jobs.

I've been a sweepstaker now for 35 years (since I was 14), and I've heard the same kind of comments from ppl about taxes. I've never understood it, because you are still making money. I like it (as a sweepstaker or a lotto player), when I have to pay taxes, because that means I won money, and all for either a buck (for the lottery), or the price of a stamp, envelope, and 3x5 paper or card.

Casino's and poker tour directors/companies are in it to make money, and I don't think we would do it for free (or for next to free), so why should they?

Can anyone explain it to me what the issue is why ppl get so upset about events that charge high 'juice' for them, when if you cash, many times you'll make more in a few days than you would in your day job?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even more annoying is when you cash just inside the bubble, make enough to cover your entry fee, tourney juice, tips for the waitresses, and maybe a burger for lunch AND THEN THEY SET THE DEALER TIP BOX IN FRONT OF YOU and ask if you would like to leave even more juice for the dealers...

**** them. You know what, that 20% juice the casino took basically means that the casino finished the tourney in second place. Why don't THEY leave some "juice" for the dealers?

AngusThermopyle · #7 08-10-2007, 12:51 PM

Spoken like a TD or owner of a casino.

Or like a carny who expects the mark to get all excited over a $1.97 stuffed toy that cost the mark $15 in tickets to 'win'.

CincyLady · #8 08-10-2007, 01:02 PM

If you've ever walked into a store or something and they had a drop in box to win a trip, car or cash, that's sweepstaking.

Taking it one step farther as a hobby, there are newsletters out there, that print the current sweepstakes that are running.

For the small price of a stamp, an envelope, and in most cases, a 3" x 5" piece of paper or card with your details on it (name, address, phone number), you can win some really big prizes.

In fact, there are several companies out there that in the last few years, have awarded seats (with airfare and hotel) to the WPT or the WSOP ME's (Hersheys is one of them).

This here is a simplistic explination of it (why advertisers run them):

[ QUOTE ]

It's a form of advertising all sponsors use to "get the consumers attention"! Anything to get you to buy that product or remember the sponsor's name.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is in a nutshell, just another form of gambling. If you'd like to find out more, just do a search of the internet under:

Sweepstaking Hobby

For the record, I've made some good money, and won some really great prizes sweepstaking. One person I know has won 3 cars in the last 5 years.

Now, back to the topic at hand here.

I know of no casino that takes a 100 percent rake, anywhere.

Thus, if you spend 100, cash for 100, didn't you just double your money? Why does it matter what the house takes, if you doubled your money (or made even more than double your money)?

Todd Terry · #9 08-10-2007, 01:05 PM

People love to complain when the price of anything rises. They complain the most when they are still willing to pay the higher price, that is, when the setter of the price realizes there's more money to be made by setting a higher price. Examples: gasoline, tickets to sporting events and concerts, the biggest and most lucrative live poker tournaments of the year at the WSOP.

gobboboy · #10 08-10-2007, 02:40 PM

This thinking makes no sense and is incredibly results oriented. If I have an roi at tournaments of 100% over a ton of results (say 1000 or so) and expect to double my investment in every tournament I play, the rake plays a huge effect on how much money I win.

If a tournament is 80+20 and I spend $100 to get in and double that, I would be cashing for $200. If the buyin is $60+40 it's suddenly a LOT harder to cash for the same $200. The amount of the money in the prize pool is crippled and your roi and overall profit are crippled.

If I win some random tournament and win 100 buyins, whoopee, but I would never play a tournament I thought to be -EV from the outset. The amount of rake the WSOP charges is completely absurd but they do it because they know the fish don't care and the pros are there because the games are ridiculously soft. It does NOT cost them $2k a head to run the freaking $50k horse event.