Live 1-2 : bottom two on flop

patrick10 · #1 01-31-2007, 08:09 AM

table has just opened so no reads on villain- effective stacks are about 90-100$

im in sb with K5o, limp for an extra dollar- about 6 people see the flop:

A5K rainbow.

i bet out $7 (it was kindof THE standard flop riase for a small unraised pot)get raised by villain somewhere in middleposition to $14, one caller. I 3-bet to $37 straight and get called by villain only.

turn : a harmless 2

but that doesnt really matter because i am pushing my stack in as the card is being flipped over. ( remaining $55 or so)

i am 90%+ certain i am not up against a set here. in my mind the only possible holdings for villain is A9-AQ. looking back, 55 could be possible, but i really wasnt getting a slow-play vibe from villain at the time...

anyway, villain calls fairly quickly.

so.

What hands do you put villain on?

Do you play the flop, and/or turn differently?

If yes- how so ?

Freelancer · #2 01-31-2007, 08:20 AM

Fold this junk preflop...

I lead out for more, I dont give a [censored] what the standard bet size is into a unraised pot is you should just stay close to pot size, besides you said the game just started up right?
I also raise his minraise for more to about 45$ or so, and the push on the turn is trivially easy...

Hands on villan when he insta calls?
Any ace will probably do, and maybe A2 for turned two pair as well...

JohnAndersen · #3 01-31-2007, 08:28 AM

I think villian could have a big ace, but it is also possible that he has A5 or A2

I play bottom two VERY hard on the flop especially in sitautions like this because I know I have the best hand, but I would not be upset with taking the pot down right there on the flop. If he has you beat, with a 50BB stack, you are going broke.

patrick10 · #4 01-31-2007, 08:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold this junk preflop...

I lead out for more, I dont give a [censored] what the standard bet size is into a unraised pot is you should just stay close to pot size, besides you said the game just started up right?
I also raise his minraise for more to about 45$ or so, and the push on the turn is trivially easy...

Hands on villan when he insta calls?
Any ace will probably do, and maybe A2 for turned two pair as well...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is LIVE $1-2, in aus. plays like nl25. call me crazy but in a pot with already 4- 5 limpers there are few hands i am folding for $1 more dollar.

other things to consider- yes the stacks a re ridiculously short- it is 40 BB max buy in

i understand your point about sizing bets larger- but this is live donk play. the players do not generally raise larger than a minraise. i know, its ridiculous and you may rate my play poorly here- but it was intentional- my plan was to get his whole stack in... * i would play it differently online against tougher opponents though.

he flipped up A5 and it held,

the main reason i posted this hand is because i am erring between this being a cooler or just me being very ignorant/ making a bad read, etc

BombayBadboy · #5 01-31-2007, 09:12 AM

Just a cooler. Live players are terrible, he could have ALOT of hands you beat.

TheIrishThug · #6 01-31-2007, 09:35 AM

You flopped bottom two vs top and bottom with short stacks, it happens.

Should we really be making our bet sizes a little smaller in order to not break trends of tables that generally bet smaller amounts?

patrick10 · #7 01-31-2007, 10:07 AM

not necessarily

but i think that 75% + of the time here, villain has A9-AQ

we have short stacks, and i want the rest of his stack.. it hink i played this ok for LIVE specifically

i didnt bet 7 to please the table, it was a standard bet size- thus it disguised the strength of my hand. i honestly believe it is more likely to be raised by top pair than had i bet the pot.

Wolfram · #8 01-31-2007, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I lead out for more, I dont give a [censored] what the standard bet size is into a unraised pot is you should just stay close to pot size

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't wanna make to many assumptions about you (Freelancer), but I think many good internet players have difficulty adjusting to live games.

You want to make a bet that makes it incorrect for villain to call (if you have him beat), while still getting a call. In live games, people aren't always betting the pot, and on this particular board there aren't any big draws out so you only have to worry about 5 outers or worse. Why bet so much that villain wont call you? You'll just force them to play perfectly against you.

To OP: I don't think you can get away from the hand with these short stacks and with a 3rd player flat calling. 3betting the flop is pretty standard and after that you're commited. Especially since a brick hit. Just a little cooler.

DougieG · #9 01-31-2007, 01:24 PM

After you made the mistake of calling pf, it's a cooler. I play live weekly in a 1/2 game at a cardroom so I know what you're talking about as far as the play goes. I also play ~30 hrs/wk 100NL 6max online so I know how that play is.

This hand is the reason we don't complete with K5 in the SB. With this many limpers there aren't any flops that look good to me with K5 other than flopped boats or quads. Villian having A5 here is exactly why we don't complete that. You said there are very few hands you fold for an extra buck, what are they if K5 isn't amongst them? Also, I look at live 1/2 games as being very similar to getting a really good draw in a tournament. Sure, I may flop two pair and get someone to overplay a big A or TPTK (like you thought you were doing), but why should I risk it when there's so much easy money to be had?

As the first reply said, fold this junk pf. After that, you lose your stack here, no way around it.