new study on diet vs exercise

[astroglide]

i said deadlifts to indicate that it was because of muscle mass. you can assume they are twins.

follow-up edit: this isn't a test or anything, i'm just asking for your rough guess.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

cbloom,
why is it necessarily obvious that muscle = higher BMR?

[/ QUOTE ]

By far the strongest correlation to BMR is your total weight. If you increase your muscle & decrease your fat you can be "fit" at a higher or equal weight, thus higher BMR. You will find this in any decent summary of BMR, search google. Basically it's much easier to be fit as a slightly heavier but muscled person than as a rail-thin person. Some people think BMR is more correlated to FFM (fat free mass) than total weight.

There's also a very significant secondary factor in that if you are stronger you will do things to burn more calories. For example, you might crunch to get from lying down to sitting, whereas if you're not strong you would get up in a way that burns less calories. Thus strong/fit people tend to be much more physically active just in every day activities.

Anyway, I never trust one study and try to draw conclusions from common sense + general scientific consensus.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

dude A - 5'8", 150LBs, burns 2000 calories per day.
dude B - 5'8", 150LBs. he's also a former deadlift enthusiast and is 10% stronger than joe.

assuming equally sedentary lifestyles, how many calories do you think dude B burns per day?

[/ QUOTE ]

If they really act *exactly* the same dude B would maybe burn 2010 calories per day, eg. not much difference. That however is not realistic and it's been shown that very small behaviors (eg. how much do you twitch, do you sit upright or slouch, etc) affect BMR/RMR greatly.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
i said deadlifts to indicate that it was because of muscle mass. you can assume they are twins.

follow-up edit: this isn't a test or anything, i'm just asking for your rough guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well 10% is really nothing so say 50% I would guess a couple hundred extra calories a day. This is well outside my knowledge but I think that you can give a rough correllation of calories burned/day/lb of muscle. 50% stronger is probably someting like 5-10lbs more muscle...so 20 calories/lb...maybe 100-200 calories more.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

dude A - 5'8", 150LBs, burns 2000 calories per day.
dude B - 5'8", 150LBs. he's also a former deadlift enthusiast and is 10% stronger than joe.

assuming equally sedentary lifestyles, how many calories do you think dude B burns per day?

[/ QUOTE ]

If they really act *exactly* the same dude B would maybe burn 2010 calories per day, eg. not much difference. That however is not realistic and it's been shown that very small behaviors (eg. how much do you twitch, do you sit upright or slouch, etc) affect BMR/RMR greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I think this is significant too. I am often very twitchy, feet tapping all day and have always had trouble gaining/keeping on weight.

[astroglide]

when i said "higher BMR", i should have spelled out "signifigantly higher BMR" because that is the suggestion. i'm trying to drill down into how large of an effect people believe it has with the twins example. your response is very interesting though, i hadn't heard about the behavior angle. if you were to assume that dude B behaves as if he is 10% stronger in his everyday motions, how much more over 2010 do you think he would go?

[SmileyEH]

The thing is this stuff is incredibly difficult to quantify and analyze with any sort of resolution. Realise that 100 calories is a little more than a single egg or a glass of orange juice. Actually tracking caloric input/output at that sort of resolution is practically impossible.

What I can tell you is that high intensity exercise (sprinting, lifting weights, most sports) will all do very good things for your body. Watch what you eat, if you want to maintain weight eat when you are hungry, if you want to gain eat when you're not, and if you want to lose dont eat when you want to. Thats pretty much it.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is this stuff is incredibly difficult to quantify and analyze with any sort of resolution. Realise that 100 calories is a little more than a single egg or a glass of orange juice. Actually tracking caloric input/output at that sort of resolution is practically impossible.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would think that it could be analyzed pretty well with test mammals. they're often inbred for similarity, etc and the calorie stuff could still be scaled out for at least an attempt at an extrapolated human analog. it's gotta be tough to get normal people to commit to 6 month+ studies like this just because the control conditions and upkeep are a lot. but it's just really surprising to me in general how there are so many accepted truths, like not eating before bedtime, that are basically more associated with magazines than studies. however true or at least logical-sounding, it still blurs the line between science and hearsay.

[cbloom]

Whoah, is this page for real? It's scary as hell -

http://www.xanga.com/weightloss_royalty

[ QUOTE ]

Hiding it

Anorexia is supposed to be a private and tortured place, dontcha know. Deny it at all costs. Pretend you have not noticed the pounds dropping off you. Don't be suspicious. Here are some relevant tips:

Spend time making yourself look healthy. Drink lots of water and apply a fake tan. Wear makeup so that you have some colour, and keep your hair looking nice and shiny, take vitamins. Smile.

Whenever you do decide to eat, do it in the company of others. That way they can't say they never see you touch food.

On your way out, heat up a slice of pizza or prepare a snack to 'eat on the run'. Of course, you will dispose of the food at your first convenience.

Leave a dirty plate lying around every so often for your parents to yell at you about.

Drink out of opaque cups, and spit your food into it whilst preteding to drink. They'll never know.

Eat really slowly because if everybody else is on their third slice of pizza, they'll assume you are too, even if you're still finishing your first.

Sign out of hotmail and clear the history before you get off of the Internet. This will eliminate Autofill being ever so helpful while your Mum is researching aardvarks, and coming up with www.anorexicsanonymous.com for her. In short, don't leave traces lying around for others to find.


[/ QUOTE ]

[kidcolin]

bit of a sidetrack:

Hey Smiley,

"What I can tell you is that high intensity exercise (sprinting, lifting weights, most sports) will all do very good things for your body. "

I know you're a big fan of crossfit, and I think I largely agree with this statement (being that I was in much better shape when I played sports and rode my bike 5 miles a day or more). But do you have any knowledge of how high intensity workouts affect your long term health? As in, are you causing any serious deterioration? I'm not saying it does or doesn't, it's just something I've thought about recently.