Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Medium Stakes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:10 AM
berserk berserk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,676
Default Re: 5/10 oop, mid pair, tough opponent. allllll in?

yo dude, stop the [censored] italics.

As played, i think this is a pretty clear call and c/c most non diamond rivers.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:41 AM
zac777 zac777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 131
Default Re: 5/10 oop, mid pair, tough opponent. allllll in?

[ QUOTE ]
Craing turn let's him play perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll go through my reasoning for the flop play in a bit, but I want to address this first.

Even if you assume that he plays perfectly against a check raise, that doesn't mean it's the wrong play. He may have a profitable bet with everything in his range against what he perceives to be my range in this spot. If I'm near the top of my range, my shove (which he folds to or calls perfectly) can still be +EV.

That may not be the case in the spot, but saying "he can play perfectly" doesn't end the discussion.

And I agree, enough with the italics.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:18 AM
zac777 zac777 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 131
Default Re: 5/10 oop, mid pair, tough opponent. allllll in?

For those of you who hate the flop play, what's your line and why? What if you know you're likely to get raised?

Here's how I looked at my options during the hand:

bet/fold: This is the standard line against most players, but against bufo I think I get raised here a ton. If I am bet/folding 99 then he probably has a profitable raise with any two cards. There's a price to be paid for being OOP, but I think my hand is too strong to put in a bet then give up against the pressure that is very likely to come.

bet/shove: If he is getting way out of line with his raising I can probably just shove over a raise. I didn't give much thought to this line because at the time it seemed super spewy.

bet/he calls. I'm OOP in a big pot with a marginal hand, but it's not the worst outcome. His range is narrowed a ton so at least my turn play is a little easier.

check/fold: I think my hand is too strong, even OOP, to be giving up on it for one bet.

check/call: I give him control of the hand in the hopes that he will fire again and I can profitably shove a good turn. One downside is that this takes a ton of strong hands out of my range, while giving me no real clue about what he has. If I don't intend to shove a large % of turns then I think this is terrible, but if I do, it gives him a chance to put the most money in when he's behind.

check/raise, bet/call: Didn't see much merit to these lines at the time, so I didn't put in much thought to either of them.

I don't like any of my options, which is why I try not to play too many pots oop vs. good/aggro players. But I had to pick something, so I took the c/c approach. I don't have any emotional attachment to my line so I'm not really interested in defending it, but if my thought process in this spot is flawed then I'd like to correct it. Eventually I have to start assigning ranges and plugging in the numbers, but I wanted to get a few thoughts first.

Thanks for the input so far.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:27 AM
ipokeder ipokeder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: asdgpoiwjgu9g
Posts: 1,531
Default Re: 5/10 oop, mid pair, tough opponent. allllll in?

bet the goddamn flop, fold to a raise. as played, he's putting you on like 87s, 66 w/d, or 99~ w/o. being that he is betting again on the best card for your range, i would not fault a fold.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:28 AM
ipokeder ipokeder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: asdgpoiwjgu9g
Posts: 1,531
Default Re: 5/10 oop, mid pair, tough opponent. allllll in?

but having gotten here, i'd never fold cuz i'm a stationnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:08 PM
Some9 Some9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Looking for Party friend with bonuses....
Posts: 628
Default Re: 5/10 oop, mid pair, tough opponent. allllll in?

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you who hate the flop play, what's your line and why? What if you know you're likely to get raised?

Here's how I looked at my options during the hand:

...

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel the same as OP here, lost.

Could someone please explain why betting is so much better when you know villain will bet if checked to 80% and raise if bet to like 25%?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.