TPGK Minraised

[cubase]

AQ, KQ would be beating you but I think you see a raise in general from those hands, but KQ is still in his range. I think AQ is out.

QT and Q9s might be in his range. The only other hands that he could have that are beating you are 22 and 77. Q2 and Q7 seem unlikely unless he is a station that plays any face-card with a suited counterpart.

You just sat down and raised from the button, so he could be "testing" you with a mid PP or QT, Q9.

Let's stove, shall we?

Board: 2c Qc 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.853% 26.17% 04.69% 18651 3341.00 { TT-22, KQs, Q9s+, KQo, QTo+ }
Hand 1: 69.147% 64.46% 04.69% 45947 3341.00 { QsJs }

So assume he'd raise you with any of the above hands to test you we look good. He might not raise you with the lowest PP's tho, so let's adjust...

Board: 2c Qc 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.537% 24.50% 08.04% 10188 3341.00 { TT-88, KQs, Q9s+, KQo, QTo+ }
Hand 1: 67.463% 59.43% 08.04% 24710 3341.00 { QsJs }

Still not looking terrible, if we assume he raises with that range.

The tricky part here is, is if we shove on him, his calling range will pretty much be sets and the few Q's that he could have. If we check and call his PSB on the turn, his range could be wider, but if he min-raises on a flush-draw we aren't happy about seeing it.

I don't know. Tricky spot...

So really, given that the play isn't clear, here is what comes to mind...

We've just sat down and I'm in my first orbit. Do I know the players at my table (excluding my villian?). If not, I have an opportunity to do interesting things with my image. Additionally, if I don't recognize anyone, they likely don't recognize me and so they are more likely to give me credit for a Q here, which means his min-raise could = lots of strength.

Due to my aggressiveness at the tables, I get min-raised with all sorts of holdings (draws, weak pairs, air, etc). You haven't established an image yet, so you can go ahead and give him credit for a big hand and fold and really nothing has occurred except that you have "c-bet and folded". To everyone else it will look like you were fooling around on the button, missed, and folded.

Or you can take an aggressive line. You can shove your stack in (you have outs if you need them). His calling range obviously narrows, but if he folds, you come out looking like an aggressive "don't f with me" player. If he calls you, you will undoubtedly be beat, but now you portray the image of an aggressive fish (see Brian Townshend video on CardRunners about making this type of play).

Everyone will start licking their chops about how you overplay your weak top-pair, and will start looking up your shoves with TP2K+ which is great when you flop two-pair+.

Since the answer isn't clear at all against this unknown (except with a tendency to fold since you likely have to face a PSB on the turn, and the turn could be a card you don't want to see A, K or club), instead of worrying about the EV of this hand, you could consider the EV of your image depending on the action you take.

Decide how you want to appear to the table and take the action that creates that image.

If all the chips get in and you were behind but suck out, use that image. If you lose, use that image. If he folds, be aware of that image, etc.

Not very helpful for the actual hand, but hopefully it provides another way to look at the hand other than straight-up hand EV.

Edit: Fixed a poor sentence structure, misspellings.

[subs]

i like your thinking.. but this is 50nl... im not really concerned about my image

[cubase]

[ QUOTE ]
i like your thinking.. but this is 50nl... im not really concerned about my image

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, there are enough regs at 50nl that this is a great time to start becoming very aware of your image and its impact.

Learning how to beat the regs at each level is critical in your growth because in-between playing the fish, you will also have to play the regs.

How they view you will impact how they play you. Being aware of who the regs are and how they view you, and if they are capable of adjusting to your image can significantly impact your winrate.

Your ability to manipulate your image (and consequently your foes) goes a long way to manipulating your winrate.

It's easy to dismiss image at lower levels, but I believe not being concerned with your image is a definite leak @ 50nl and possibly even 25NL.

My two cents FWIW. Mileage may vary.

[DickieBets]

Just as an excercise in figuring out his range, wouldn't A-x clubs be in his range here ?

Also would you expect someone call with Q-10 o or Q-9s and then minraise the flop ? I also wouldn't expect low pocket pairs to behave like this either, except for 2s or 7s. Why didn't you put JJ+ - because you'd expect them to 3-bet preflop ?

[cubase]

[ QUOTE ]
Just as an excercise in figuring out his range, wouldn't A-x clubs be in his range here ?

Also would you expect someone call with Q-10 o or Q-9s and then minraise the flop ? I also wouldn't expect low pocket pairs to behave like this either, except for 2s or 7s. Why didn't you put JJ+ - because you'd expect them to 3-bet preflop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the someone. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] JJ, yes I'd expect to be 3-bet most of the time. But if my villian is a passive nit, they might just call.

Figuring out the range here is really tough because we just sat down and have 0 reads. He could be an aggro monkey or a nit who just hit the nuts with QQ. We can easily widen or narrow the range if we knew who we were playing. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My range was just a quick range brainstorm as a starting point...

As other posters have mentioned, this is just a tough spot.

Readless it's always hard to interpret the min-raise. One opponent's min-raise = QQ, the other means flush draw, the other means TPNK, the other means TPTK.

[Profish2285]

I fold to his flop min c/r. I definitely fold to his turn bet. I would call his flop c/r if you had a higher kicker but pretty much youre hoping this is either QT or a draw. In general unknowns dont min c/r with either of those, so I need a read or stats on this guy before I start thinking tpgk is the nuts.