QQ spot 1/2 NL

[jlocdog]

Parlay,

If you knew he had JJ then you would want to bet because any Q-A and you may lose the action. Also JJ is only a part of his range. He will call with much lighter holdings as well. Twisted Echo reinforces my point in saying he probably only puts in money on the river if he caught up. Plus this is 1/2. The last part of my range given makes up a huge portion of it.

Fishsticks,

What is your first post trying to say?? Seems like you just gave him every possible holding and didn't make a decision...

[Parlay Slow]

I thought Fishsticks analysis was really good

[jlocdog]

Maybe so, but I still am unsure of where he stands. I can justify all hands possible as well. What is your action on the turn is the question, and seemed to go unanswered. That is all.

If he, or anyone is advocating a check right there (fine) are you getting the rest of the money in on the river whether it be you calling it off or shoving behind a check?

[FishSticks]

jlocdog -

I didn't indicate a clear action because truth is I have mixed feelings on the situation. I spouted off some possibilities because trying to put the villain on a range is always a good first step. Didn't intend it to be some sort of be all, end all answer.

The thing that throws me is that 3betting pre OOP > c/c raggy flop is a VERY weird line. Any way I try to peg villain doesn't make good sense to me.

If we're hoping he's kind of fishy loose passive and will call it off with JJ or some random ten, that really doesn't jive with squeezing an UTG raiser. Those types will just call with JJ all day here against an UTG raise (or a raise from any position, really).

If villain is standard taggy and making a squeeze, pulling a c/c on a raggy flop makes no sense. Even if he's doing something weird with 99 or whatever it's really doubtful that he'll call off his stack here on the turn.

I think that villain either has AA/TT and is trapping, or villain squeezed with a hand like 7d8d or 6s5s mayyyybe AK and was planning on giving up and then saw the less than half pot bet and the 3rd villain fold and decided to peel.

So, with all that said, I'm still not sure. I'd hate to give one the drawing hands I mentioned a free one to catch up and lose the pot (obv disaster), but if I just shove into TT/AA despite the fact that my spidey sense is tingling I'll feel pretty foolish. Definitely a weird spot.

(lol no I still didn't really offer a solid opinion either way)

[Nielsio]

More on the flop and don't fold.

[jlocdog]

Fishsticks,

I guess I just view lines that make minimal sense for 'good hands' to be played like that, I peg the villain as a clown, ie. willing to stack off light and/or spew with a turn call with AK and such, and act accordingly.

I just gather from your posts that you want it both ways. You want to give him credit for a big hand a trap us with his cagey play and yet you also recognize this line makes little sense from beginning to end and feel he very well may be peeling light in order to hit or float.

All in all, I agree with what you have to say. But when the question is posted as, 'what do you do on the turn', giving an answer is what is requested.

[FishSticks]

lol jlocdog, the question he posed is "what do yall think" - not "should I shove, check yes or no". He wanted to know what people thought, and I gave him some thoughts on the hand. I think he appreciated my comments, and I'm not contending I gave a /thread answer. Why do you take such exception to my comments?

Villains have ranges, and most times some of their range beats us, and some of their range doesn't. I'm just trying to discuss how plausable different parts of villains range are here, given the action thus far.

fwiw his play could be consistent with a squeeze from 77/TT that spiked a set - lots of folks would check the flop after spiking their miracle, looking to let an overpair hang itself or giving AK/AQs unimproved a chance to pair up and get stacked by a turn CRAI.

Anyways, just to satisfy you, I would move in here on the turn in this situation. Here is running very aggro, and villain might be a tard with anything looking to make a stand or more likely has one of the peeling hands I mentioned earlier - so, yah, readless I'd push.

What I'm generally getting at is that there are plenty of times reads/history would cause me to check back here and pray for showdown. With no stats/reads/history/anything I would indeed push.

[carrotsnake]

lol, why parlay why ?