why does this forum care so much about religion

[tpir]

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Try to debate someone who can scientifically backup his faith in scriptures is a whole different things.

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What does this even mean? How can you have scientific backup for faith? Wouldn't that take the "faith" out of the faith realm once we had evidence? Sounds like you mean "trust" and are using the hot-word faith in it's place.


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Obviously we can't understand things though that require no limit to space and time, and obviously we are bound by both.

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You could not possibly know that either of these statements are true.


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Whole point is to be logical and rational enough to see how science upholds writings in some scriptures

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Science "upholds" the writing in Moby Dick and War and Peace too. I don't think I see what point you are making here.


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It's only human though, your bound by the same laws as me in our capacity to fully understand the mysteries of the universe. But the things we can understand, if you seek for the truths with an open mind you got a better shot of seeing the brilliant light that started this whole universe.

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I agree with you that humans are bounded by certain limitations in understanding the universe. Kind of ironic though that you chastize people for being arrogant but at the same time, you know the truth already!!


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It's a good thing that you don't put yourself in a conversation with people who have logical reasoning for believing in the scriptures thats scientifically backed up.

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Are you one of these people? If so you should start a new thread about logical reasoning for scripture being true and let us ask you questions. There are lots of reasonable non-believers on here who would have plenty of good questions for you to tackle.

[Hopey]

Splendour,

I'm a little surprised that you are responding to my posts. You made a big production out of putting me on "ignore" a few weeks ago.

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Then we've got Hopey's little laundry list...First of all Hopey the Mongols weren't atheists...they believed in multiple gods, goddesses and demons and had an extremely high number of taboo practices...They managed to seize power thru their superior military tactics. i.e. horsepower...Atheism had nothing to do with their successful conquers...
The Japanese aren't Atheists either...They are a combination of Shinto/Buddhist for the most part. They marry Shinto and they bury Buddhist. A merciful country known as the United States of America bailed Japan out by helping to rebuild them after WWII...I daresay you could go to Japan today and find Japanese amazed at Americans doing this since Japan never handled any surrendering enemies in such a gentle fashion in their whole history prior to WWII...take a look at the Bataan Death march or how warring Shogunate factions handled conquered enemies...Not to mention how the U.S. bailed out Germany following WWII through the generosity of the Marshall Plan...

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I may have been wrong about the Mongols being atheists (they most likely practiced Shamanism), but the point is that they weren't Christian and yet controlled the largest empire the world has ever seen.

I am well aware that the Japanese practice Shintoism. All I stated in my post is that they are not Christian.

I never stated that "atheism" is what made these nations to be great powers.

What I was responding to was this post:

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But overall, the great ecomonic powers of today have serious Christian roots, perhaps with fading church attendance, but solid roots.

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I was pointing out that over the last 1000 years, there have been plenty of instances of non-Christian world powers. If we want to solely limit ourselves to non-Christian world powers *today*, we can point to Japan and China.

[ChrisV]

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THere are certainly definitional issues. But overall, the great ecomonic powers of today have serious Christian roots, perhaps with fading church attendance, but solid roots.

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Come back in 50 years and all the Asian countries will be like Japan and South Korea are now.

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You can parse it and spin it as your agenda warrants, but the easiest living is found under the shade tree of Christianity. Why do atheists loathe this fact so very much?

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It's meaningless correlation, related to who happened to conquer who. If you want much, much stronger correlation, look at the role of property rights, constitutional democracy and the rule of law in successful societies. There is nothing particularly Christian about those things. Try finding me an actual Christian theocracy in history that worked out well.

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Lastly, Europe's shining star, the new and perhaps only future hope, Ireland

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lol? That's some pretty serious hyperbole. I've just been to Europe and can report it isn't going up in flames.

[ChrisV]

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One person stated that a skeptic nation has a better chance of functioning than a Christian nation....He needs to check out the most liberal republic of all time...the rise and fall of the Weimar Republic...

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lol, I have no idea whether the Weimar Republic was actually as liberal as you say, but:

a) It would qualify as a "Christian nation" under OP's definition.

b) The constitution was hopelessly naive

c) It was operating under ridiculously difficult circumstances.

[WiiiiiiMan]

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Try to debate someone who can scientifically backup his faith in scriptures is a whole different things.

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What does this even mean? How can you have scientific backup for faith? Wouldn't that take the "faith" out of the faith realm once we had evidence? Sounds like you mean "trust" and are using the hot-word faith in it's place.


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Obviously we can't understand things though that require no limit to space and time, and obviously we are bound by both.

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You could not possibly know that either of these statements are true.


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Whole point is to be logical and rational enough to see how science upholds writings in some scriptures

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Science "upholds" the writing in Moby Dick and War and Peace too. I don't think I see what point you are making here.


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It's only human though, your bound by the same laws as me in our capacity to fully understand the mysteries of the universe. But the things we can understand, if you seek for the truths with an open mind you got a better shot of seeing the brilliant light that started this whole universe.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you that humans are bounded by certain limitations in understanding the universe. Kind of ironic though that you chastize people for being arrogant but at the same time, you know the truth already!!


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It's a good thing that you don't put yourself in a conversation with people who have logical reasoning for believing in the scriptures thats scientifically backed up.

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Are you one of these people? If so you should start a new thread about logical reasoning for scripture being true and let us ask you questions. There are lots of reasonable non-believers on here who would have plenty of good questions for you to tackle.

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What I am saying that is, this info belongs on a "Open Minded Ideology" Forum or Open Minded Religion forum.

Not a bunch of guys who have their minds made up and already decided that scriptures are bogus.

For Example: If I don't want to learn the laws of physics, and I am against it, but someone is trying to show me something and I already decided this is not something I even care to invest anything in, I am probably not going to understand as much as someone who is going in for the thirst of discovery and with an open mind to truth and facts.

There are those out there that think Science is just all BS, and no matter what you present to them, they already made up their mind so they are not letting any logic or reasoning slip through.

Might as well put that energy into a forum of people who don't have their minds made up.

[kurto]

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Not a bunch of guys who have their minds made up and already decided that scriptures are bogus.


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What about the people who have made up their mind that the scriptures are real?

I'm sure you'd agree that it would be a waste of time having a conversation with them as their minds are closed.

[tame_deuces]

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One person stated that a skeptic nation has a better chance of functioning than a Christian nation....He needs to check out the most liberal republic of all time...the rise and fall of the Weimar Republic...

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Speaking of taking something out of context. The weimar republic was an attempt to make democracy in a state where the authorative regime (emperor) had just fallen, it failed to do so, it was plagued by civil strife and revolutions, it never had control of the army (it had to cede that control to get the constitution through), it was plagued by the depression and inflation, near the end it become corrupt and its chancellors were then nothing but presidentially appointed dictators - the only thing making it resemble a democracy whatsoever was suffrage (which isn't enough).

[WiiiiiiMan]

Nice answering question with a question.

Well if you can accurately , conclusively, and scientifically demonstrate the absolute truth of such works, then the stuff that is unexplained is easier to put faith into.

That's why.

I know some parts are true, and I have faith that all parts are true.

[kurto]

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I know some parts are true, and I have faith that all parts are true.


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I notice a pattern to your posts... you have more faith then actual knowledge and that's good enough for you.

[WiiiiiiMan]

I know some facts, and some things that are unexplained.

Those facts give me a logical reason to have faith in the unexplained.