Couple of marginal overpairs facing raise on flop, what to do?

[Chip Monk]

Hand 1: 0 reads, just sat down at table.

Seat 1: BenAmg ($48.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Uglene ($18.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Manzit ($68.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Titsonabull ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Waldhoffan ($48.25 in chips) DEALER
Seat 10: schlumpfi ($50.25 in chips)
schlumpfi: Post SB $0.25
BenAmg: Post BB $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Titsonabull [9d 9h]
Uglene: Fold
Manzit: Fold
Titsonabull: Raise $2.00
Waldhoffan: Fold
schlumpfi: Call $1.75
BenAmg: Call $1.50
*** FLOP *** [2d 8s 6h]
schlumpfi: Check
BenAmg: Check
Titsonabull: Bet $4.00
schlumpfi: Raise $12.00
BenAmg: Fold
Titsonabull: ??

Hand 2: Trips444 is 52/4/0.5 with flop agro of 3 and wt/w$sd stats of 25/33 having losing 73 dollars already (316bb/100) over 23 hands

Seat 1: Rizumu ($55.10 in chips)
Seat 3: fishfinder000 ($95.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Titsonabull ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 6: DrRot ($51.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Trips444 ($82.63 in chips)
Seat 10: DankoP ($60.60 in chips) DEALER
Rizumu: Post SB $0.25
fishfinder000: Post BB $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Titsonabull [9s 9c]
Titsonabull: Raise $2.00
DrRot: Fold
Trips444: Call $2.00
DankoP: Fold
Rizumu: Fold
fishfinder000: Fold
*** FLOP *** [4h 7h 3c]
Titsonabull: Bet $4.00
Trips444: Raise $12.00
Titsonabull: ??

Hand 1 is difficult with no reads. I'm interested to see what peoples standard lines are here. Hand 2 is complicated due to villain's high vpip + 1 billion scare cards on turn if we call. Thoughts?

[Woody317]

Hand 1 without a read i think i just fold. In a vacuum this is way too often a set for me to want to continue. If i know he can make plays or is loose and likes to play TPTK like this i'd probly call and go from there. Without reads it's just too tough to continue. I also hate shoving beause either you're drawing to 2 outs or villain's drawing to 5 so calling a cheap turn's the best option in position here.

Hand 2 i think is a clear shove. Aggro donks always seem happy to stack off extra light. If he's hit a set so be it but guys like this call with heaps here. You can call but that's risky cause you're not gonna see a cheap showdown and there's a heap of scare cards out there.

[Chip Monk]

Hmm, these were my thoughts as well upon first inspection of these hands. However i began to doubt these plays when i asked a friend who plays higher than me in small stakes. He seemed to think hand 1 is a call due to position and a widish range here of villain...i'm still not totally convinced because of the other player in the pot here. In hand 2 he advocates folding because with that vpip villain could have a lot of 2 pair hands, have flopped the straight, or have massive combo draws where we're a only a small fav, with lots of turn scar cards it's tough to call there, and it seems retarded to just push over a 12 dollar bet for the other 34..also with calling we are OOP.

I'm really not sure, but these are 2 standardish marginal situations and i'm still keen to find out most people's lines..so what do other's think?

[Woody317]

I think being a higher stakes player he's more used to people raising c-bets light. I just don't see it happen at all really in the micros. I'd want a good read to continue here.

On second thoughts maybe the 2nd hand is a fold but i don't really like any option at all. Folding seems week because a lot of his range we have beat, calling sucks being out of position with scare cards galore to come and shoving probly folds out any hands we beat. If i know he can stack of extra light i shove cause we've got huge fold equity. If you know he's gonna keep firing no matter what maybe check calling down can be ok but it's high variance.