Are we bluffing pf?

[Speedlimits]

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My thoughts on 3 betting are that it throws an extra decision into the mix. The basics of profitable poker is making better decisions and less mistakes than your opponent. Obviously I don't want to make this sound like BBV, but poker rewards aggressive moves.

If I feel like I have an edge on my opponents, I want to put them in as many positions to make mistakes as I can to allow me to capitolise on that.

The amount you 3bet really should depend on the flow of the game. I've noticed a lot of mediocre TAGs have started habitually 3betting with suited connectors and such even against opponents they've never played before. That's a mistake.

If people are predictable and will constantly fold to 3bets, you should be doing it with a wide range as it's basically free money. If you're playing against standard TAGfish, you need to work out when they adjust their calling range and then play appropriately. It's all about adapting. A lot of people simply can't stand to get 3bet all the time, particularly when they're OOP, and you can force some very obvious mistakes from otherwise quite solid players this way.

The merits and negatives of 3betting different hands in different situations is completely variable. Small pairs tend to have the best implied odds of any hand, and for that reason I tend to feel like their value is wasted by 3betting, but conversely if your opponent will call your 3bet with QJo or T9s, then you're doing it for value and it's fine.

Basically what i'm getting at is, it is kind of a moot point to outline what is or isn't the proper 3betting strategy. Like anything else in poker if you're not reacting to the dynamics of the game you're not playing optimally.

-Andy

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That's like saying everything in poker is situational so we can't learn anything by talking about it. Man that is such bs

[Some9]

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[3betting 76s as opposed to doing it with JTs]

3.) When hits will be very deceptive. If we 3-bet as a bluff (either OOP or IP) and we are called by a solid regular with whom we have little history, we're usually going to be in bad shape in terms of PF equity. If we flop big though, we'll have a very disguised hand.



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while it is correct that our hand is disguised, there is also the drawback that when our hand hits our opponent's wont. let me show you what I mean. say I 3bet 76s and get a flop of 458. This is a great flop and our hand is disguised, so we should like it. Compare that to JTs on a flop of 9QK. So which flop do we like more? Obv the one where our hand "is not so disguised".

Of course this argumentation doesn't hold for all situations and is opponent dependent. If we have a LAG who will shove over a cbet in a 3bet pot with air then the disguised hand is better (heel figure the board missed us). But against most TAG(-fish if you like) opponents a disguised hand doesn't do any good I believe.

Other than that I really liked that post I quoted.

[TwistedEcho]

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Sorry havent read most of posts ... but..... I think it is important to remember that its not a bad thing to win just the preflop $$$$ with either JJ or AQ. There can be a lot of ugly flops for those hands so taking it down preflop by defining our hand as strong is not bluffing.

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or you learn to play postflop and not be scared of those tricky postflop spots. Its about whats the best way to win money with those hands, not which is the easiest way to play. Go setmine FR if u want variance free no thought poker.

[Shes92]

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[ QUOTE ]
Sorry havent read most of posts ... but..... I think it is important to remember that its not a bad thing to win just the preflop $$$$ with either JJ or AQ. There can be a lot of ugly flops for those hands so taking it down preflop by defining our hand as strong is not bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

or you learn to play postflop and not be scared of those tricky postflop spots. Its about whats the best way to win money with those hands, not which is the easiest way to play. Go setmine FR if u want variance free no thought poker.

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Im actually quite happy to play post flop .. is all Im trying to say is that when we reraise we are defining our hand as a strong hand ... which they are .... but even still its not a bad result to pick up the blinds and raisers money. I actually am one to reraise with these hands in 95% of situations as I think I am generally ahead of villains range. Im raising to build a pot with a strong hand. I cant remember a time when I setmined with JJ cos Im either raising a single raiser or folding to a raiser and reraiser.

[carrotsnake]

who said we're setmining wtf. Also, can a mod actually ban me I'm wondering ? Tufat said to so I think it would be smart [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[The Good]

Hm, we're in the small stackes forum and play small stakes. Against most opponents and ofcourse unknowns I will deffinitely 3-bet hands such as JJ ip. Just because the fact that I beat there calling range to, not only there opening range.

Against better opponents that will not be willing to call/play back with weaker hands then JJ I totally agree that a call (ip) is nice. One good thing with this play that I have't seen mentioned is that it will help us to float people, beacause the range when we just calls behind on the flop will be stronger in generall if we do these plays with hands such as TT, JJ.

As metioned I think it's a 3-bet oop though. It takes of a bit from or positional disadvantage plus villains calling range will be bigger when he's in position.

ps. I definitely think that a 3-bet with the small pairs mentioned is nice. I really don't get why you would just call it all the time, I get it against a nit, but not against the goood tags/lags we're discussing.

[PBJaxx]

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Heres a challenge, for 5k hands try and play 35/25 poker at least.

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I know CS loves to throw these little troll-posts out there, but there is generally truth to them. He doesn't always explain it out all the way, but this is actually really good advice, IMO. I opened up a few months ago (33/28 for ~15k hands), and I feel like my game drastically improved. I currently play closer to 25/20, but that month helped me a lot.

Very good content OP/Speedlimits.

Cue Carrotsnake to call me a nit.

Edit: Oh yeah. Mods, ban Carrotsnake.

[beachbum]

Slightly different situation: Tricky LAG 33/22 opens UTG, you have AQ in the BB. Your preflop folding equity is almost zero. You have his opening range crushed as well as being solidly ahead of his calling range. He'll fold to a cbet about 30% of the time on any flop, raise about 20%, and float (with or without hands that beat you) the other 50%. If you just call preflop, he'll cbet ~90% of the time.

Do you 3bet preflop or not? How do you handle postflop?

[EddieRooo]

"Opponents will be thrown for a loop when it comes time for showdown and you flip up JJ for an overpair while he was betting his top pair on the board on all 3 streets. "

nice post speedlimits, but this sentence happens just about never (the board being all unders and an opponent betting all 3 streets with TP)