QQ utg 50/50 ftp

PokerPhenom · #1 07-24-2007, 05:20 PM

Last nights 50/50 on ftp, I'm about 50th in chips with around 230 players left, top 180 cash. I'm not sure the stop and go is right here, do I reshove preflop or check the flop and go from there?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
(Ante: t50)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t10970
UTG+1: t16108
MP1: t19356
MP2: t12127
MP3: t18286
CO: t13611
Button: t16515
SB: t9376
BB: t5020

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to t1250, 3 folds, MP3 raises to t2100, 4 folds, Hero calls t850 (pot was t4400).

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t5250, 2 players)
Hero is all-in t8820, MP3 calls t8820 (pot was t14070).

Cornell Fiji · #2 07-24-2007, 05:24 PM

What does 50/50 mean (bounty?)

What did you think his range of hands was after minraising him preflop?

Which of those hands did you want to fold to your flop push? which of those hands did you want to call? Do you think that your bet would be effective in achieving that goal?

What do you think that he would think that you had after your EP raise and then flop open shove?

Honestly, did you shove the flop because you did not know what else to do and you thought that by shoving you would not have to make any more decisions and therefore would be easiest for you?

PokerPhenom · #3 07-24-2007, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What did you think his range of hands was after minraising him preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

He minraised me preflop, not sure if that's what you meant to say. I was just moved to this table about 10-20 hands ago so I really didn't have an effective range for him. I shoved because I thought as played aks, possibly hearts, or jj were likely, both of which I would like to call me. Also if i bet 1/2-2/3 pot and get pushed on I'm likely calling. His minraise really should have set off a warning for me though.

Cornell Fiji · #4 07-24-2007, 05:32 PM

it will be helpful for you to answer all of the questions that I posed but if you were not trying to put him on a range of hands while at the table and you were instead just playing your own cards then I think this might become a breakthrough post for you...

PokerPhenom · #5 07-24-2007, 05:35 PM

Sorry, the fifty fifty is just a $50+5 buyin with $50k guarantee. The reason I really didn't have a range for him is like I said I've seen him play 10-20 hands all but maybe 2 or 3 of which were folded.

Cornell Fiji · #6 07-24-2007, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, the fifty fifty is just a $50+5 buyin with $50k guarantee. The reason I really didn't have a range for him is like I said I've seen him play 10-20 hands all but maybe 2 or 3 of which were folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

So were you not even trying to figure out what he had? This is a MAJOR problem.

You should always be trying to put your opponents on a range of hands. The more you know about a player the more specific your range should become but you should at least be thinking something like a minraise pf means he probably has (22, 33, 79s, 44 in that order) of course what I typed is not a good approximation, I would like you to come up with what you think he might have had.

After you do that answer these questions: Which of those hands did you want to fold to your flop push? which of those hands did you want to call? Do you think that your bet would be effective in achieving that goal?

What do you think that he would think that you had after your EP raise and then flop open shove?

PokerPhenom · #7 07-24-2007, 05:47 PM

Very good line of questioning. I have to leave soon but I will get back to you on this later tonight.

Sherman · #8 07-24-2007, 05:52 PM

While Steve is giving a fantastic interrogation (mostly in an effort to help you learn) I'm going to spoil the party with the right answer:

Check/raise or check/call a shove on the flop.

TFGoose · #9 07-24-2007, 05:52 PM

Cornell is right of course. Think through those questions he asked and try to figure out your own answers.

As for the hand, without a strong read I probably go broke here too... but I do it differently. I think I'd call the min-raise preflop as you did, but check the flop. After re-raising you, he's probably expecting you to do this anyway, and he is expected to bet no matter what his holding. He will bet 88-QQ, AQ+ here just as often as KK or AA I think (and his range, if you ask me, probably isn't much broader than that unless he's very aggressive). If you open push, he may muck some of those hands and you miss out on those chips. But if you let him bet (or push) first, then you can get paid off with your better hand. Yeah, he may already have you destroyed with KK or AA (which, from the sound of things, he did), but with the stack sizes and blinds showing here, I don't think you're getting away from your hand on this board. So you might as well maximize value for the times you are ahead.

--TFGoose

TFGoose · #10 07-24-2007, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check/raise or check/call a shove on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short version of what I just said, guess I could've just gone with that. I'm so long-winded, lol. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

--TFGoose